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Moderated What's wrong with porn?

Southwind17 said:
No offence Leif Roar (seriously), but this thread is taking up way too much of my time, so I'm going to have to be selective as to whom I debate with, and, unfortunately, I find your debating style, in the main, somewhat irrational when not literal, and slightly immature. Moreover, I honestly can't figure out whether some of your twisted interpretations and responses are genuine misunderstandings or just plain obstinacy. Either way, I don't see it changing, so I'm afraid I'm going to have to clip you - sorry. Thanks for contributing though.
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Surprise, surprise.

Generally, I do think they're being used and depraved, unwittingly, regardless of consent, to the detriment of women generally.
Click to expand...

Some people claim it empowers them.
 
Belz... said:
In any number of ways:

1) My senses may incorrectly process the information
2) My brain may be transmitting data that my senses aren't reading
3) My interpretation of the limited data may be erroneous

Etc.
Click to expand...
I think this a whole different subject, appropriate to a different sub-forum.

Belz... said:
What do you mean, "mean" ?
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Are you serious?! If so, I mean what do you intend to convey when you write "the world" in the context in which you've written it. You surely cannot mean "the World", can you?! (Did I really need to clarify that?! :rolleyes:)
 
Alright, here's some food for thought for those of you who do not believe "most" women would NOT want to become porn stars:

- 66% of porn stars have Herpes, a non-curable disease.
- Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds.
- 70% of sexually transmitted infections in the porn industry occur in females.
- 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women.
- 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths among performers that we know of since 2000.
- Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS.
- The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
- More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
_______
And....
_______

"No one held a gun to their heads and said 'Do it,'" remains a facile ploy to avoid confronting the issue. Freedom of choice is illusion. How many working-class men would choose (a career in) boxing in a world of truly free choices, in which they might just as easily become brain surgeons? And how many working-class women would choose to be pornographic film stars, or prostitutes, if they could just as easily become Supreme Court justices?"
-Michael Kimmel, in Men Confront Pornography.
_______
And... (Sorry, I can't put the link in, I haven't posted enough to allowed yet:()
_______
4 Reasons Women Become Porn Stars:

Alternate Career:
There are many women who become porn stars by accident. Such individuals travel to Los Angeles and other large cities in search for acting opportunities in the entertainment business. However, they consider porn movies after being passed on for other normal roles. Some women are able to separate themselves from porn quickly after doing one or two movies and return to more regular acting roles. Unfortunately, lots of women remain in the porn business and start to make a name for themselves in adult movies.

Once they have performed in several adult movies, it can be difficult to get cast for normal Hollywood productions. These women then decide to build a career in porn and bypass regular acting altogether. Their reason for getting into porn is usually not intentional but becomes acceptable to them after some time. This is one reason why many women become porn stars. If they do not find a career in Hollywood movies, they accept offers in porn.

Search for Money
The porn business is a very lucrative industry. This is another reason why many women choose to become porn stars. In fact, money is one of the most common reasons people work in porn. Adult film stars like Jill Kelly and Jenna Jameson have millions of dollars. Their paycheck might not look like that of any newcomer. However, women do make a significant amount of money by performing in adult movies. It is not unheard of for a porn actress to earn a few thousand dollars for one day of work.

Nymphomaniac
This may be one of the most odd and unhealthy reasons why women become porn stars. However, many women do indeed enter the porn business because they have excessive sexual desires. This can be both exciting and harmful depending on the circumstances. The rise in STDs has probably tripled in the porn industry. Putting that aside, there are tons of women who enjoy working in porn movies. They get much satisfaction out of their interactions. To these individuals, the work itself is a great advantage of being a porn star.

Revenge
While it may sound unusual, some women become porn stars to get revenge. There are porn stars who have stated that they were seeking revenge on an ex-boyfriend. This revenge was acted out by participating in porn movies. Women who have chosen to seek some kind of revenge did so for various reasons. The reasons include cheating or abuse from significant others. One may find it difficult to understand why becoming a porn star can even the score with someone that has done wrong. However, that is where some women find their satisfaction and closure.
__________________________________________
On a personal level, a close friend of mine has been in the porn industry since she was 17 years old (she is now close to 40). She has been beaten, raped (more than once), drugged, insulted... and the list goes on. She has tried to get out of it but no one wants to consider you (apart from waitressing or hair dressing) if you have a history in the porn industry. Now, I know that this is not the experience EVERY woman has, but unfortunately, it is far from being an isolated case. There's a huge difference between the idea of pornography and the practice of pornography. Some porn productions may be a shining example of respect and ethics but those are the exception. And yes, society does still very much view the "porn star" as practicing a low-status profession.

But like I wrote earlier, I really enjoy some types porn and believe it is a social necessity, just like prostitution. But puritanism, extreme feminism and religion (just to mention those) are marginalizing and demonizing those professions with a passion, hence, feeding the sharks (of course, I'm not talking about child pornography which is a totally different story!!!!!). SO... Although I'm aware that some do, I believe most women, meaning a majority (%) of women, would not CHOOSE to become a porn star.
 
Orangem said:
Alright, here's some food for thought for those of you who do not believe "most" women would NOT want to become porn stars:

- 66% of porn stars have Herpes, a non-curable disease.
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Which version of herpies, if herpies simplex A then something like 80% of the public has that anyway.
- 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women.
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This then assumes you take issue with prostitution
- 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths among performers that we know of since 2000.
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So what kind of suicide rate is that, and how does it compare to other jobs with high suicide rates like police officer?
[quot]
- Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS.[/quote]

And how many have been in the last 15 years?
- The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
- More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
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Again you have to prove that these things are bad

"No one held a gun to their heads and said 'Do it,'" remains a facile ploy to avoid confronting the issue. Freedom of choice is illusion. How many working-class men would choose (a career in) boxing in a world of truly free choices, in which they might just as easily become brain surgeons? And how many working-class women would choose to be pornographic film stars, or prostitutes, if they could just as easily become Supreme Court justices?"
-Michael Kimmel, in Men Confront Pornography.
Click to expand...

There is a bit of a false diacotomy here, they might not have totaly unlimited choice in profession, but they do have choice, they could work as waitresses or what ever. They choose this out of the jobs that they are qualified for. Rather like everyone else chooses their job.
Alternate Career:
There are many women who become porn stars by accident. Such individuals travel to Los Angeles and other large cities in search for acting opportunities in the entertainment business. However, they consider porn movies after being passed on for other normal roles. Some women are able to separate themselves from porn quickly after doing one or two movies and return to more regular acting roles. Unfortunately, lots of women remain in the porn business and start to make a name for themselves in adult movies.
Click to expand...

They could always give up on being in the movies at all.
 
I'm quite a porn-aficioné myself. :boxedin:

Well, I'll admit it has some downsides.

First, it's the obvious - While you're wanking to some barely legal russian maid you could be, in fact, making meaningful and passionate love to someone you love. Say, for instance, a barely legal russian maid.

Second - Well, in the end it's just a waste of time. It's a good waste but still... it is time wasted.

Third (and I'm sorry if this seems somehow offensive to the female attendants here at the Forum): Everytime I meet a hot girl first thing that comes to mind is "Humm... I wonder if she swallows" or "I bet she likes it rough!". I don't know why this happens. Still, no one can blame me from my thoughts. Maybe you can blame me for sharing my thoughts but, hey, isn't that the point of the thread?

Fourth: It is super-degrading and corrosive to self-esteem. At a point in my life, I was terrified to think I was the only one without a 7km dick. And for women it's even worse, at least if they compare themselves with pornstars. Honestly, I'm not really into pornstars - like someone mentioned, it's too fake, too plastic, too cheap... Now, barely legal russian maids, that's another story! :D

But of course, like any other terrible family-breaking hard-cold addiction, pornography has its benefits - otherwise no one would do it.

First: Well, it is easy(!). If I really feel like watching a naked danish redhead riding a poney while wearing a straw hat or a mexican girl at the beach drinking a bottle of tequilla and then having fun with it, I can do it with a dozen clicks on the mouse.

Second: It's good when you're bored or when you're really stressed out. Although one has to be careful, if you feel that watching porn everyday makes you less agitated, you should rethink on why you are so agitated in the first place. Like the cigarette smoker who says cigarettes help him to calm down, when in reality what makes them stressed out is the lack of nicotine. You get the analogy, I hope.

Third and most important of all: It allows me to dream and believe that, if I work really hard and become a sucessful responsible citizen, I will someday be able to have my own barely legal russian maid. :cool:
 
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Orangem said:
Alright, here's some food for thought for those of you who do not believe "most" women would NOT want to become porn stars:

- 66% of porn stars have Herpes, a non-curable disease.
- Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds.
- 70% of sexually transmitted infections in the porn industry occur in females.
- 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women.
- 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths among performers that we know of since 2000.
- Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS.
- The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
- More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
Click to expand...

The straw!!! It's burns!!!

This reads like a list of creationist junk except for porn.
 
Southwind17 said:
I think this a whole different subject, appropriate to a different sub-forum.
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No, its quite relevant. You say that your personal experience with women makes you 100% certain that most women wouldn't want to be in porn. Though I agree with your conclusion, its your method and certainty I have issue with.

Oh please Belz - grow up will you.
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Useless rhetoric. You're the one who used the "oh, you're ganging up on me" and "Well I can't respond to y'all, _I_ have a life" excuse we see so often.

Some people claim it empowers them.
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There are always exceptions. It shouldn't need me to point that out to you.
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Who said anything about exceptions ? I'm pointing out opinions that disagree with yours.
 
Orangem said:
Alright, here's some food for thought for those of you who do not believe "most" women would NOT want to become porn stars:

- 66% of porn stars have Herpes, a non-curable disease.
- Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds.
- 70% of sexually transmitted infections in the porn industry occur in females.
- 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women.
- 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths among performers that we know of since 2000.
- Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS.
- The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
- More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
_______
And....
_______

"No one held a gun to their heads and said 'Do it,'" remains a facile ploy to avoid confronting the issue. Freedom of choice is illusion. How many working-class men would choose (a career in) boxing in a world of truly free choices, in which they might just as easily become brain surgeons? And how many working-class women would choose to be pornographic film stars, or prostitutes, if they could just as easily become Supreme Court justices?"
-Michael Kimmel, in Men Confront Pornography.
_______
And... (Sorry, I can't put the link in, I haven't posted enough to allowed yet:()
_______
4 Reasons Women Become Porn Stars:

Alternate Career:
There are many women who become porn stars by accident. Such individuals travel to Los Angeles and other large cities in search for acting opportunities in the entertainment business. However, they consider porn movies after being passed on for other normal roles. Some women are able to separate themselves from porn quickly after doing one or two movies and return to more regular acting roles. Unfortunately, lots of women remain in the porn business and start to make a name for themselves in adult movies.

Once they have performed in several adult movies, it can be difficult to get cast for normal Hollywood productions. These women then decide to build a career in porn and bypass regular acting altogether. Their reason for getting into porn is usually not intentional but becomes acceptable to them after some time. This is one reason why many women become porn stars. If they do not find a career in Hollywood movies, they accept offers in porn.

Search for Money
The porn business is a very lucrative industry. This is another reason why many women choose to become porn stars. In fact, money is one of the most common reasons people work in porn. Adult film stars like Jill Kelly and Jenna Jameson have millions of dollars. Their paycheck might not look like that of any newcomer. However, women do make a significant amount of money by performing in adult movies. It is not unheard of for a porn actress to earn a few thousand dollars for one day of work.

Nymphomaniac
This may be one of the most odd and unhealthy reasons why women become porn stars. However, many women do indeed enter the porn business because they have excessive sexual desires. This can be both exciting and harmful depending on the circumstances. The rise in STDs has probably tripled in the porn industry. Putting that aside, there are tons of women who enjoy working in porn movies. They get much satisfaction out of their interactions. To these individuals, the work itself is a great advantage of being a porn star.

Revenge
While it may sound unusual, some women become porn stars to get revenge. There are porn stars who have stated that they were seeking revenge on an ex-boyfriend. This revenge was acted out by participating in porn movies. Women who have chosen to seek some kind of revenge did so for various reasons. The reasons include cheating or abuse from significant others. One may find it difficult to understand why becoming a porn star can even the score with someone that has done wrong. However, that is where some women find their satisfaction and closure.
__________________________________________
On a personal level, a close friend of mine has been in the porn industry since she was 17 years old (she is now close to 40). She has been beaten, raped (more than once), drugged, insulted... and the list goes on. She has tried to get out of it but no one wants to consider you (apart from waitressing or hair dressing) if you have a history in the porn industry. Now, I know that this is not the experience EVERY woman has, but unfortunately, it is far from being an isolated case. There's a huge difference between the idea of pornography and the practice of pornography. Some porn productions may be a shining example of respect and ethics but those are the exception. And yes, society does still very much view the "porn star" as practicing a low-status profession.

But like I wrote earlier, I really enjoy some types porn and believe it is a social necessity, just like prostitution. But puritanism, extreme feminism and religion (just to mention those) are marginalizing and demonizing those professions with a passion, hence, feeding the sharks (of course, I'm not talking about child pornography which is a totally different story!!!!!). SO... Although I'm aware that some do, I believe most women, meaning a majority (%) of women, would not CHOOSE to become a porn star.
Click to expand...

No references. Why am I not surprised ?
 
Southwind17 said:
I see exactly what you're talking about - always have done. The key question now, though, is: what's the topic of debate? Are we going right back to the OP or picking up part way through the thread? If the latter, it's important to be absolutely clear what people (especially me!) have stated, but even more importantly, not stated.
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Why don't you pick? You've made it very clear that you are the "interviewer".

Other than my penultimate post (so far!), however, I'm not prepared to state a "position", as I never sought to state a position in the first place. If you want to use that post as the take off point that's fine with me.

Your call.
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Sorry, you HAVE clearly stated your position, based on the questions you've already asked. If you truly wanted to be asking "interview-type" questions, you would have at least phrased them much more neutrally. Be that as it may, ask away.
 
I think the fear is that you get used to it and you want more and more and then that gets boring and you want more excitement and you want something different and stranger to keep the excitement going. And that is supposed to lead to violent and criminal sexual urges. That, i think, is the theory and fear.

That or people get addicted to it.
 
Orangem said:
Alright, here's some food for thought for those of you who do not believe "most" women would NOT want to become porn stars:

- 66% of porn stars have Herpes, a non-curable disease.
- Chlamydia and Gonorrhea among performers is 10x greater than that of LA County 20-24 year olds.
- 70% of sexually transmitted infections in the porn industry occur in females.
- 75%-90% of porn performers are prostituted women.
- 20 suicides and 28 drug related deaths among performers that we know of since 2000.
- Over 100 straight and gay performers died from AIDS.
- The largest group viewing online pornography is ages 12 to 17.
- More than 11 million teens regularly view porn online.
Click to expand...

I think I've seen these stats before. Could you post the website using (DOT) and spaces instead of the period? I think you could bypass the restriction that way.

"No one held a gun to their heads and said 'Do it,'" remains a facile ploy to avoid confronting the issue. Freedom of choice is illusion. How many working-class men would choose (a career in) boxing in a world of truly free choices, in which they might just as easily become brain surgeons? And how many working-class women would choose to be pornographic film stars, or prostitutes, if they could just as easily become Supreme Court justices?"
-Michael Kimmel, in Men Confront Pornography.
Click to expand...

Sorry, this means nothing. This could apply to any job period. Seeing who said it, I can guess where these figures come from but I don't want to make assumptions.....

4 Reasons Women Become Porn Stars:

Alternate Career:
There are many women who become porn stars by accident. Such individuals travel to Los Angeles and other large cities in search for acting opportunities in the entertainment business. However, they consider porn movies after being passed on for other normal roles. Some women are able to separate themselves from porn quickly after doing one or two movies and return to more regular acting roles. Unfortunately, lots of women remain in the porn business and start to make a name for themselves in adult movies.

Once they have performed in several adult movies, it can be difficult to get cast for normal Hollywood productions. These women then decide to build a career in porn and bypass regular acting altogether. Their reason for getting into porn is usually not intentional but becomes acceptable to them after some time. This is one reason why many women become porn stars. If they do not find a career in Hollywood movies, they accept offers in porn.

Search for Money
The porn business is a very lucrative industry. This is another reason why many women choose to become porn stars. In fact, money is one of the most common reasons people work in porn. Adult film stars like Jill Kelly and Jenna Jameson have millions of dollars. Their paycheck might not look like that of any newcomer. However, women do make a significant amount of money by performing in adult movies. It is not unheard of for a porn actress to earn a few thousand dollars for one day of work.

Nymphomaniac
This may be one of the most odd and unhealthy reasons why women become porn stars. However, many women do indeed enter the porn business because they have excessive sexual desires. This can be both exciting and harmful depending on the circumstances. The rise in STDs has probably tripled in the porn industry. Putting that aside, there are tons of women who enjoy working in porn movies. They get much satisfaction out of their interactions. To these individuals, the work itself is a great advantage of being a porn star.

Revenge
While it may sound unusual, some women become porn stars to get revenge. There are porn stars who have stated that they were seeking revenge on an ex-boyfriend. This revenge was acted out by participating in porn movies. Women who have chosen to seek some kind of revenge did so for various reasons. The reasons include cheating or abuse from significant others. One may find it difficult to understand why becoming a porn star can even the score with someone that has done wrong. However, that is where some women find their satisfaction and closure.
Click to expand...

These are reasons to be a porn star, not reasons against it, though the descriptions try to spin it that way.

I also feel that the catagory "Nymphomaniac" is clearly a "catch-all" phrase for someone with a high sex drives: true nymphomaniacs are rare and is a psychological condition.

Also, limiting this list to four catagories, I feel, is a very limited point of view aimed at trying make porn sound like something horrible. When for many people, it is not.

As to your anecdote, I'm sorry for your friend, but I can come up with an anecdote of someone who is a cop who got abused and addicted as well. I can also come up with positive anecdotes of porn actress.

I'm sorry, I don't think you've proven anything.
 
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Bill Thompson said:
I think the fear is that you get used to it and you want more and more and then that gets boring and you want more excitement and you want something different and stranger to keep the excitement going. And that is supposed to lead to violent and criminal sexual urges. That, i think, is the theory and fear.

That or people get addicted to it.
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Yeah, not very convinced by this unsuported generalization.
 
What two consenting adults and their cocker spaniel choose to do in the privacy of their home and/or the subway station is nobody's business but their own.
 
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Why is it porn threads get more views and replies than other "social" concerns...:crowded:

Back to my RedTube...;)
 
JFrankA said:
I think I've seen these stats before. Could you post the website using (DOT) and spaces instead of the period? I think you could bypass the restriction that way.
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Good idea! Thanks.

www (DOT) shelleylubben (DOT) com/ (She puts her own references on her page)

www (DOT) oneangrygirl (DOT) net

www (DOT) associatedcontent (DOT) com/article/256234/4_reasons_women_become_porn_stars (DOT) html?cat=31


JFrankA said:
These are reasons to be a porn star, not reasons against it, though the descriptions try to spin it that way.
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I know. But they're all a bit derogatory... Not many positive reasons to choose this career path were presented...

JFrankA said:
I also feel that the catagory "Nymphomaniac" is clearly a "catch-all" phrase for someone with a high sex drives: true nymphomaniacs are rare and is a psychological condition.
Click to expand...

I agree.

JFrankA said:
Also, limiting this list to four catagories, I feel, is a very limited point of view aimed at trying make porn sound like something horrible. When for many people, it is not.
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Actually, that was my point: they're all trying to make porn sound like something horrible! While searching on the internet, I couldn't find much positivity surrounding views on the porn industry. The amount of positive views is extremely small in comparison to the amount of negatives views. So, whether what's presented is valid or not, true or false, the general image of porn that's given is mostly a negative one: fear, degredation, drugs, abuse, objectification of women... blablabla!

So, I'm assuming (yes, it's just an assumption) that all this fear and negativity readilly available for the young neophyte, is nothing to nourrish the desire to build a career towards that industry.

JFrankA said:
As to your anecdote, I'm sorry for your friend, but I can come up with an anecdote of someone who is a cop who got abused and addicted as well. I can also come up with positive anecdotes of porn actress.
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Please do write a positive anecdote from a porn actress! :) Honestly! I'm genuinely interested! Unless it's not something I can ask on these forums :confused:

JFrankA said:
I'm sorry, I don't think you've proven anything.
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I'm not trying to prove anything. It was truly only food for thought. I guess the only thing I'm trying to awkwardly say is that jobs that involve sex are frowned upon by the "higher social instances", it's still very controversial and extremely taboo (One of America's greatest hypocrisies). Working in this industry brings harsh social stigmas. I believe most women don't want to deal with that... Again, my assumption.
 
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