Whats Wrong With My Honey?

[shawmutt]

However, in Denver, most of the time, salt does not clump in salt shakers, sugar doesn't get lumpy in sugar bowls, and potato chips don't get soggy if you leave them in an open bag overnight

That sounds like...Heaven! Is it also the place where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average?

 

[Madalch]

Speaking as someone with formal culinary training -- yes, yes it does. It takes longer than, say, sugar water does, but it does dry out. Especially if it's a very very thin coating, like around the threads of a jar top or the tip of a squeeze nozzle that isn't airtight, or in a very arid environment (like the inside of an oven).

In fact, if honey didn't dry out, you couldn't have things like honey glazed ham.

The inside of an oven was not the conditions we're speaking of in this thread.

As for the stuff around the threads of the jar top, well, this entire thread is about the difference between crystallizing and drying out. Honey that's subjected to constant mechanical abrasion (such as around the jar threads) is much more likely to crystallize- just like shaking a flask of supersaturated sodium acetate will result in instant crystallization.



I'm not from a humid climate- I'm from Edmonton.

 

[tesscaline]

The inside of an oven was not the conditions we're speaking of in this thread.

As for the stuff around the threads of the jar top, well, this entire thread is about the difference between crystallizing and drying out. Honey that's subjected to constant mechanical abrasion (such as around the jar threads) is much more likely to crystallize- just like shaking a flask of supersaturated sodium acetate will result in instant crystallization.



I'm not from a humid climate- I'm from Edmonton.

That the inside of an oven is not the condition of which you are speaking does not change the fact that honey can, and does, dry out in the right circumstances -- i.e. when exposed to highly arid conditions while spread thinly.

 

[quarky]

Maple syrup rules.

 

[big-E]

If you are worried about micro-waving plastic...

Should I be? I've always assumed that it was (heaven forbid ) a bit woo to worry about 'toxins leaking' when doing such things...

 

[tesscaline]

Should I be? I've always assumed that it was (heaven forbid ) a bit woo to worry about 'toxins leaking' when doing such things...

Some plastics melt in the microwave (plastic in your dinner is at least icky even if it's not life threatening). But, if you're using a microwave safe plastic that won't melt, then there's not really anything to worry about AFAIK.

 

[macdoc]

Bisphenol A is likely in the squeeze bottles - glass rules for microwave.

 

[casebro]

I just de-crystalized my quart of honey, using citric acid and a bit of water. 1/8 teaspoon per qt. I recall it acts as a catalyst. Bring to a boil, it will make big bubbles like you;d expect. But when the acid does it's thing, is makes a foam of very fine bubbles. I guess that is the gasses coming out, from breaking the bonds between the glucose and fructose. Tastes fine, maybe even more honey-y. Mere heat helps, but it always seems to re-crystallize quickly. Time will tell. Next time I open a 5 pound jar, I'll add a sprinkling of citric acid as a prevention.

 

[godofpie]

Rob,
If it makes you feel any better, I am having the same problem. I buy my honey 30 lbs. at a time (6-5lb plastic jugs) and this last batch is crystallized all to hell. I have been buying honey from Sam's Club for the last 15 years and I have never had this problem. Each jug is about 30% crystallized. It's Virginia Brand honey made in West Virginia and is supposed to be 100% natural. It was crystallized when I bought it. All the honey on their shelves was.
I believe it is a bee conspiracy.
Damn killer bees.
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/the-killer-bees/29161/

 

[macdoc]

From the reading that might not be a bad sign.
Apparently raw honey is not liquid at room temp.

Gentle heating to hive temps can liquify without destroying the enzymes and other biologicals.

So I've read.

A glass jar full in the dish washer does a terrific job for me.

 

[orange31]

"Whats Wrong With My Honey?"

...can this marriage be saved?!

 

[quarky]

Honey often contains aphid poo.

 

[EHocking]

Bisphenol A is likely in the squeeze bottles - glass rules for microwave.

I recall a thread I was involved with on the myth on the dangers of refilling water bottles.

I believe that the BPA myth is similarly being bandied about.
A quick Google to back up my belief that this myth is widespread - Myths and Facts

ETA: I don't think crytallisation of honey is a new thing or much to do with producers/distributors monkeying with the "mix". I've witnessed crystallising honey in jars/plastics since the 1960s.

 

[macdoc]

Stenge they banned a myth in Canada.

The federal government has decided to add bisphenol A to the country's list of toxic substances and draft regulations that ban the sale in Canada of plastic baby bottles containing the chemical.


The federal ministries of Health and the Environment on Saturday said the government would move to restrict the importation, sale and advertising of bottles made with the controversial chemical after announcing six months ago it would declare it a toxic substance.


Although bisphenol A (BPA) makes plastic hard and shatterproof, tests show it can leach into food and beverages when heated.
Studies have shown the chemical can imitate the female hormone estrogen, and it has been linked to cancer and infertility in animals.

"It is concluded that bisphenol A be considered as a substance that may be entering the environment in a quantity or concentration or under conditions that constitute or may constitute a danger in Canada to human life or health," the health and environment departments said Friday in the government publication Canada Gazette.


Concerns have been raised that BPA in polycarbonate plastics and epoxy linings can migrate into food and beverages, particularly when heated.

more here

BPA is one of many man-made chemicals classified as endocrine disruptors, which alter the function of the endocrine system by mimicking the role of the body's natural hormones. Hormones are secreted through endocrine glands and serve different functions throughout the body.
The chemical--which is widely used in products such as reusable water bottles, food can linings, water pipes and dental sealants--has been shown to affect reproduction and brain development in animal studies.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130092108.htm

The risk to human health is not quantified but there is no particular reason to continue it's use when the animal studies are clear.
and the human studies ARE pretty strong....

Common Organic Compound Found In Many Household Products May Pose Health Risk To Breast Cells

ScienceDaily (Apr. 3, 2008) — Bisphenol A, a chemical that leaches into food and beverages from many consumer products, causes normal, non-cancerous human breast cells to express genes characteristic of aggressive breast cancer cells. That’s the finding of a “Priority Report” in the latest issue of the journal Cancer Research, the official journal of The American Association for Cancer Research.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080401231554.htm

Considering Canada is close to legalizing marijuana you can hardly accuse us of being illiberal on the safety of substances. I'd say the gov reasoning is pretty sound and so far is limited to baby products.

 

[EHocking]

Stenge they banned a myth in Canada.

So? It's amazing what a politician will push through to remain in office...
A government action does not belie the science.
Quote, "Many Canadians, especially mothers of babies and small children in my own constituency of Ottawa West-Nepean, have expressed their concern to me about the risks of bisphenol A in baby bottles," said Canada's Environment Minister John Baird. "Today's confirmation of our ban on BPA in baby bottles proves that our government did the right thing in taking action to protect the health and environment for all Canadians."

Yep, absolutely no political motive in that study whatsoever.

They are merely being pre-emptive and (perhaps overly) cautious,
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr-cp/_2008/2008_84-eng.php
"To put this into perspective, the average Canadian would need to consume several hundred cans of food per day to reach the tolerable level established by Health Canada. ... In their assessment published in April 2008, Health Canada scientists adopted a precautionary approach in identifying that newborns and young infants may be more sensitive to BPA. Therefore, measures were recommended to ensure that they are exposed to the lowest levels of BPA possible."

Oh, and back to the subject? Don't worry about heating your squeeze bottle of honey. Again from their FAQ.


21. Some plastic food containers – like ketchup, mayonnaise and salad dressing bottles – have the recycling #7 on the bottom. Does this mean they contain bisphenol A?

No, these types of soft squeezable bottles are not made from polycarbonate and do not contain bisphenol A. Only hard and clear plastic bottles are made from polycarbonate. As a general rule, if you can easily squeeze the bottle, it is not made from polycarbonate plastic and does not contain bishpenol A.

So there you have an urban myth in the making (as was the refilling drinks bottles myth). A little science misunderstanding, a bit of political interference and then a bit of conflation of "facts".

The last being your error that squeeze bottles have BPA in them which would leak out into your honey if the bottle was heated.

 

[Blackadder]

The right way to store hunny

 

[macdoc]

Strange that an urban myth is so well analyzed

Résumé / Abstract

The potential risks to human health and reproduction from the xenoestrogen, epoxy-resins compounds, bisphenols have not been well established. This is due in part to the absence of accurate analytical methods to quantify bisphenols in food samples. In fact, the possibility of contamination of honey with epoxy-resins compounds arises from packing, contact materials, imported production, etc. First, an analytical method for the determination of bisphenol A (BPA) and bisphenol F (BPF) in honeys was developed. Reversed-phase liquid chromatography was used for measuring BPA and BPF in honey sample, prepared with solid-phase extraction. The recoveries of BPA and BPF spiked at 5.0 and 50 ng/g were above 90% with a relative standard deviation (RSD) of less than 10%. Second, this method was applied to various honey samples (n = 107) from different countries; BPA was detected in only a few of them (detected levels: ND<2.0-33.3 ng/g), while BPF was not detected at all in the analyzed samples. Third, an assessment of BPA levels in honey was expressed by our analytical data and references.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14940519

and Beehive makes a point of promoting BPA free.

Over blown concern? perhaps.

Urban myth?? not at all.

There is no similar problem with glass.

 

[zooterkin]

I don't think crytallisation of honey is a new thing or much to do with producers/distributors monkeying with the "mix". I've witnessed crystallising honey in jars/plastics since the 1960s.

Agreed, but in the UK we certainly noticed when farmers started growing oilseed rape, in the late '70s and '80s, and the bees collected nectar from it. Normally it takes weeks if not months for honey to crystallise in the jar, but with oilseed rape honey, it can be days, and you have to extract it from the hive promptly before it solidifies there. The crystals are much smaller, too, the solidified rape honey is much paler, and almost very viscous rather than solid.

 

[ponderingturtle]

As joobz points out, it's not a loss or absorption of water that makes honey crystallize, it's just that honey is a supersaturated solution of sugars. The tendency of honey to crystallize will depend on the presence of seed crystals, the viscosity (if you add water, it may actually be more likely to crystallize due to the lower viscosity!), and the particular kinds of sugar (glucose, sucrose, fructose) in the honey (or, rather, the exact proportions of these sugars).

Just heat that sucker up in a pan of hot water.

This also suggests why honey recrystalized when simply heated. If heated it and made sure it got very thoughly mixed it might not recrystalize.

Of course you might be able to make creamed honey out of honey that has started to crystalize.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Honey is exceedingly complex but I suspect processing negates many of the properties.
It's been used as a wound healer for a long time. Antibacterial properties would seem to be an obvious evolutionary advantage.

Your honey might have been cut with corn syrup as it is behaving funny.

Probably not. I have not heard of corn syrup crystalizing, and you put corn syrup into sugar solutions to prevent this sort of crystalization.