What's the hijacker alive theory?

[Par]

[H]ow have you established from whom the samples came? How do you know that one of the sample came from the same Jarrah whose family wanted to provide a sample?

I’m not sure why you’re referring to me, specifically. In any event, we know because those DNA Profiles came from hotel rooms, hire cars etc. that the hijackers obtained in their own names and with their own identification.

 

[Clippy]

Are you not looking at the applets? Or do you prefer to JAQ off?

Does this mean you don't know?

 

[~enigma~]

Does this mean you don't know?

No it means are you looking at the applets and I am not going to spoon feed a child like you seem to be acting.

 

[Clippy]

I’m not sure why you’re referring to me, specifically. In any event, we know because those DNA Profiles came from hotel rooms, hire cars etc. that the hijackers obtained in their own names and with their own identification.

This is nowhere near the level of certainty from sampling family members. In fact, it's nearly useless. How do you know they used their own names and their own identification? Are you going to keep begging the question?

 

[Clippy]

No it means are you looking at the applets and I am not going to spoon feed a child like you seem to be acting.

Well, perhaps one of your politer colleagues could help me out. I don't see these applets to which you're refering.

 

[CptColumbo]

Identifying and linking DNA from a plane crash location to DNA from a car or a hotel room does not positively identify who that person was. It’s only evidence to people with foregone conclusions. The official version is a promotion not a proven case.

What would the odds be that two people who have the same DNA profile also rented the same car and stayed in the same hotel room and one died at one of the crash sites? Then calculate what the odds would be that two people traveling together shared the same DNA as two people that rented the same car and stayed in the same hotel room and one pair died at one of the crash sites.

Reasonable people can see that while it is possible that this happened, it is incredibly improbable, and can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that the hijackers were identified. Still, even if the family members gave samples, there would still be people that would say it wasn't good enough.

What some people want is a time machine to go back and witness the events for themselves. Unfortunately, that technology doesn't exist (or does it) so we must rely on evidence we can reasonably collect after an event has occured. They would then claim it was a parallel universe or something.

Always keep in mind that there is only two things you can be 100% certain of:
1. You exist.
2. You have senses.

Everything else is based on your past experiences. How do you know that the sun will rise tomorrow? Just because it always has before doesn't necessarily mean it always will. This is one of the reasons that juries are asked (in criminal cases) to find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not with 100% certainty.

 

[johnny karate]

Clippy and Profanz aren't quite convinced the hijackers were accurately identified? Oh noes! Whatever will we do? Oh yeah... life and the world will go on exactly as it did yesterday because no one cares. How tedious and boring Truthers have become.

 

[~enigma~]

Well, perhaps one of your politer colleagues could help me out. I don't see these applets to which you're refering.

Your not gonna find anything unless you click on the numbered links. Now go examine the links and come back after you find what your looking for.

ETA - I will narrow it down a little for you...it's in phase 2....find it yet?

 

[Par]

This is nowhere near the level of certainty from sampling family members. In fact, it's nearly useless. How do you know they used their own names and their own identification?

I’m not sure why you’re referring to me, specifically. In any event, are you now happy enough that the DNA evidence shows that the people who booked the hotels rooms, hire cars, etc. were the same people who hijacked and crashed the planes? (We can discuss the issue of identification in due course.)

 

[WildCat]

Anonymous DNA on a toothbrush won't help you.

So you think that the DNA found on items known to be in his possession, which was subsequently found at the crash site, came from some other person who for some reason didn't appear on the flight manifest?

If you can't see how stupid that is there is no hope for you. You will spend the rest of your life believing stupid things.

 

[MikeW]

Clippy and Profanz aren't quite convinced the hijackers were accurately identified?

9/11 "truth" is all about fallback positions. David Ray Griffin's comment that it's been shown that the identifications are incorrect is indefensible, so instead they move back to "just asking questions" about the "official story". There is of course no evidence anyone can provide that would satisfy them, which means they can spin this out indefinitely. Another victory for The Truth.

 

[~enigma~]

Clippy must have found the applet. Either that or he decided JAQING off really makes people look dumb.

 

[T.A.M.]

Listen, it is pointless to argue with people that feel they need access to ALL THE EVIDENCE in order to be convinced. You would have to allow these idiots to walk into the coroner's office and then be shown the actual comparative DNA samples, then have an INDEPENDENT person explain to them how to interpret the samples, and even then they would question where the coroner got the samples...it is useless.

TAM

 

[~enigma~]

Listen, it is pointless to argue with people that feel they need access to ALL THE EVIDENCE in order to be convinced. You would have to allow these idiots to walk into the coroner's office and then be shown the actual comparative DNA samples, then have an INDEPENDENT person explain to them how to interpret the samples, and even then they would question where the coroner got the samples...it is useless.

TAM

Agreed...but it is oh so fun pointing out their lunacy.

 

[T.A.M.]

Truther: I want proof the hijackers were identified by DNA.

Debunker: Here is an article saying the FBI provided comparative samples, and the coroner matched them to collected human remains from GZ.

Truther: Alleged FBI samples are not good enough.

Debunker: Here is a DNA sample the FBI collected from Mohammed Atta's father, and it compares almost exactly to one of the samples from GZ.

Truther: How do I know that is really from Atta's Father?

Debunker: Here is an afadavit from Atta's father confirming he provided a sample to the FBI.

Truther: How do I know THE SAMPLE USED IN THE COMPARISON was actually that of Atta's fathers?

Debunker: Here is the sample number for Atta's Fathers Sample, and it matches that on the comparison.

Truther: So. How do I know they didn't just forge it to make them match?

Debunker: Raises hands in frustration, shakes head, and leaves...

TAM

 

[Clippy]

I'll restate my point and then be done. Without comparing the DNA samples from the crash site and hotels to the family members of the alleged hijackers, you cannot be certain (at least at the level of DNA fingerprinting) that at least some of the hijackers were not using fake IDs.

MikeW: Perhaps so. But much of the debunking that goes on here involves an unwillingness to concede any flaw in the official report.

Par: We agree on your point.

T.A.M.: I don't envy you for your faith.

enigma: You have an obsession with faeces. You might want to get this checked out. And I would recommend a bowel movement of your own.

 

[~enigma~]

enigma: You have an obsession with faeces. You might want to get this checked out. And I would recommend a bowel movement of your own.

That is feces....can't you bowel movement fruitcakes ever get anything right (besides the date 9/11/2001)?

 

[T.A.M.]

clippy:

Every time a crime is investigated, you have to have faith that the investigators are telling the truth, and not faking the evidence...do you not?

Or would you demand to see for yourself all the samples, all the DNA samples, all the evidence, before you would believe it in any criminal case???

Good luck with that one.

TAM

 

[johnny karate]

I don't know about the rest of you, but the personal incredulity of Clippy has certainly convinced me that 9/11 was inside job.

 

[MikeW]

MikeW: Perhaps so. But much of the debunking that goes on here involves an unwillingness to concede any flaw in the official report.

If there were actually substantial positive evidence that the "hijackers are alive" then that wouldn't matter in the slightest. In fact, if you make good points and someone ignores you then you'll win the argument, at least to outside viewers.

Unfortunately that evidence doesn't exist, and that's where your problem lies - not the "debunking on here".