What would you accept as PROOF of a God?

[D'rok]

It's the buildup.

Well call me Glaucon, I await your revelations o' master of elenchus.

 

[Beleth]

How would you prove such an observation wasn't a hallucination? I'm some LSD trippers have 'observed universes being created'.

A hallucination isn't real.

Less flippant answer:
LSD is detectable in one's bloodstream, and from what I hear makes other hallucinations as well. If I see a universe get created, and right before (or after) get tested for hallucinogens in my system, and the rest of the day goes by as I would expect, then I would have every reason to rule out a hallucinogen as the source of my observation.

 

[Bob Klase]

If some guy praying for a limb to grow back then it growing back convinces you then you must be very credulous given the number of alternatives which are given the circumstances just as likely as a "God" doing it.

Really? Can you give us just one single documented instance of a human limb growing back- ever? If not then I would say that up to now the number of alternatives are exactly zero.

Future progress in science and medicine may change that, and likely in the near future. Until then, time is running out for god to use that as evidence of his existence.

 

[Bob Klase]

How would you prove such an observation wasn't a hallucination?

Why does he have to prove it to anyone? Your question asked what he (or we) would accept as proof. If he accepts it as proof there's no need for him to prove to you that what he's accepted is correct.

It seems that now you want to change your question from "What would you accept as PROOF of a God?" to "How would you prove to Dustin that you have proof that there's a god".

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Believe me, the event is extremely well-defined. If it weren't well-defined, it would not be as compelling a proof to me when it happened.

Well since you won't divulge it I can't comment on it and you can't use it as an answer.

The event, as I said, is not undefined.

Ok.

A hallucination isn't real.

Really???

Less flippant answer:
LSD is detectable in one's bloodstream, and from what I hear makes other hallucinations as well. If I see a universe get created, and right before (or after) get tested for hallucinogens in my system, and the rest of the day goes by as I would expect, then I would have every reason to rule out a hallucinogen as the source of my observation.

LSD can be tested but it's not the only thing that causes hallucinations. They can occur naturally.

 

[Beleth]

Why does he have to prove it to anyone? Your question asked what would be proof to convince him. If he accepts it as proof there's no need for him to prove to you that what he's accepted is correct.

It seems that now you want to change your question from "What would you accept as PROOF of a God?" to "How would you prove to Dustin that you have proof that there's a god".

Exactly my observation also, and very well put, Bob.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Really? Can you give us just one single documented instance of a human limb growing back- ever? If not then I would say that up to now the number of alternatives are exactly zero.

Can you give me an example of a documented instance of a human limb growing back due to prayer to God? Ever? If not then I would say that up to now the number of possibility of such is exactly zero.

Future progress in science and medicine may change that, and likely in the near future. Until then, time is running out for god to use that as evidence of his existence.

You didn't address my other possibilities.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Why does he have to prove it to anyone? Your question asked what he (or we) would accept as proof. If he accepts it as proof there's no need for him to prove to you that what he's accepted is correct.

If he can't prove to me that it wasn't an illusion or dream then how can he prove it to himself?

It seems that now you want to change your question from "What would you accept as PROOF of a God?" to "How would you prove to Dustin that you have proof that there's a god".

Not at all. I'm just saying that if one can't prove (in general, not to me) that something isn't a dream or illusion then how can they prove it to themselves?

 

[Beleth]

Well since you won't divulge it I can't comment on it and you can't use it as an answer.

Sure I can. It answers the question "What would Beleth accept as proof of God?" precisely and succinctly.

What it doesn't answer is the question "What can Beleth say that would convince Dustin that God is provable?", and, since I cannot read your mind, I see no benefit to even attempting to answer that question.

 

[Darth Rotor]

It seems that now you want to change your question from "What would you accept as PROOF of a God?" to "How would you prove to Dustin that you have proof that there's a god".

I'd buy a bottle of Mezcal, about 100 proof, and after Dustin and I shared it, I'd let him eat the worm.

That might be the kind of proof he would accept.

DR

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I'd buy a bottle of Mezcal, about 100 proof, and after Dustin and I shared it, I'd let him eat the worm.

That might be the kind of proof he would accept.

DR

I don't drink anything lower than 150.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I don't drink anything lower than 150.

How manly, and also sad. The flavor of the 80-100 proof range stuff is superior to the pure burn of 151 and things like grain. Enjoy the ride, that's my suggestion.

To each his own.

In any case, have some Mezcal, it's a nice variation on the theme. Bring plenty of limes.

Eating the worm transcends % alcohol.

DR

 

[Apathia]

Maybe he prays to "God" and it regrows but "God" didn't cause it to regrow. Possibly he has some unconscious supernatural ability to heal himself but he believes "God" did it.
Possibly some other powerful being did it who answered his prayer but isn't "God".
Possibly he is the first person to be able to grow limbs back due to some natural genetic ability.

So that can't be "Proof".

And so the goalpost began running around the field.

 

[Foster Zygote]

How manly, and also sad. The flavor of the 80-100 proof range stuff is superior to the pure burn of 151 and things like grain. Enjoy the ride, that's my suggestion.

To each his own.

In any case, have some Mezcal, it's a nice variation on the theme. Bring plenty of limes.

Eating the worm transcends % alcohol.

DR

151 proof. Pfft. It's naught but a cocktail of lacquer thinner, toluene and hydrogen peroxide with a chaser of methyl-ethyl ketone for manly, hairy-chest thumpin' men like me.

 

[Darth Rotor]

151 proof. Pfft. It's naught but a cocktail of lacquer thinner, toluene and hydrogen peroxide with a chaser of methyl-ethyl ketone for manly, hairy-chest thumpin' men like me.

I see we have an Everclear fan in our midst. Good for the burn, but not the flavor, to my palate.

What's your take on the Jeremiah Weed?

DR

 

[strathmeyer]

Which would include...? Specifically?

Any evidence at all. How more specific can I get?

 

[Beleth]

Is there any evidence of anything that the "hallucination hypothesis" can't lay low?

I have enough evidence to convince me that I am sitting in front of a computer screen right now, typing away at a keyboard. Should the possibility that I am hallucinating this be strong enough to make me doubt that that is what I am, in fact, doing? If so, doesn't that strip any possible meaning from the word "evidence"?

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

And so the goalpost began running around the field.

No. I asked what everyone here would accept as proof of a God. He provided an example and I pointed out how it would not be valid proof of a God and if he accepts such as proof he must be gullible.

Any evidence at all. How more specific can I get?

A lot more specific. What would you consider evidence? Give me an example.

Is there any evidence of anything that the "hallucination hypothesis" can't lay low?

Yes. That I am. Cogito, Ergo Sum.

I have enough evidence to convince me that I am sitting in front of a computer screen right now, typing away at a keyboard. Should the possibility that I am hallucinating this be strong enough to make me doubt that that is what I am, in fact, doing? If so, doesn't that strip any possible meaning from the word "evidence"?

You're dealing with two different circumstances. One which is (from your perspective) very common and everyday and another which would be so uncommon the only reasonable explanation would be hallucination. I COULD be hallucinating as we speak and could be sitting outside in a stupor but what I'm doing is what I do often and due to no evidence to the contrary I must assume it is real which would fall within Occam's razor. If I were witnessing a universe being created I would realize that this goes against everything I know to be possible and anything I've ever experienced and thus could conclude it to be a hallucination and with Occam's razor that would be the most reasonable conclusion.

 

[D'rok]

Yes. That I am. Cogito, Ergo Sum.

But what is this "I" that thinks?


(That wasn't much of a revelation after all this buildup. Glaucon is disappointed)

 

[Beleth]

Yes. That I am. Cogito, Ergo Sum.

What evidence is there of that, that can't be explained by a hallucination?

You're dealing with two different circumstances. One which is (from your perspective) very common and everyday and another which would be so uncommon the only reasonable explanation would be hallucination. I COULD be hallucinating as we speak and could be sitting outside in a stupor but what I'm doing is what I do often and due to no evidence to the contrary I must assume it is real which would fall within Occam's razor.

But perhaps you are just hallucinating that what you are doing is common and everyday, when what you are really doing is lying in a hospital room with an IV drip of LSD going straight into your veins.

If I were witnessing a universe being created I would realize that this goes against everything I know to be possible and anything I've ever experienced and thus could conclude it to be a hallucination and with Occam's razor that would be the most reasonable conclusion.

But what if you were just hallucinating that it went against everything you've ever experienced yada yada yada...

Do you see my point? Saying "Maybe you are hallucinating" makes every argument, every bit of evidence, come crashing down. It is therefore totally useless as a counterargument to any specific scenario.