What will be the result of the Israeli attacks on Gaza?

[DC]

Finish them off!

and that makes you a non barbarian?

 

[Texas]

A very short-sighted poll

I regard the current violence as another nail in the coffin of the two-state solution. It will soon be too late to resurrect that idea.

The region is on the path to a one-state solution.

Well those pulling for the Palestinians had better hope that does not end up being the case because in a one state solution it will be Israel as the last man standing. Israel could wipe out every Palestinian in 48 hours even without nukes.

 

[DrBaltar]

and that makes you a non barbarian?

The Israelis have a right, just like everyone else on the planet to live in peace as long as they don't intrude on other people's rights to live in peace. Hamas has forfeited their right to live in peace by continuously seeking conflict and aiming for the extermination of the Jews. Therefore, Hamas must be eliminated.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Yup. . . more violence.

A point I made before: why is that people think the enemy can be cowed into submission by violence, but "we" are different and will fight back?

And yeah, I think it's absurd when someone calls anyone who criticizes Israel's actions an "anti-semite" when the Palestinians are arguably more semitic than modern Israelis.

 

[DC]

The Israelis have a right, just like everyone else on the planet to live in peace as long as they don't intrude on other people's rights to live in peace. Hamas has forfeited their right to live in peace by continuously seeking conflict and aiming for the extermination of the Jews. Therefore, Hamas must be eliminated.

like everyone else on this planet, does that include the Palestinian people?

as long as they don't intrude on other people's rights to live in peace.

and i gues alot Palestinians feel intruded.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Hamas has forfeited their right to live in peace by continuously seeking conflict and aiming for the extermination of the Jews. Therefore, Hamas must be eliminated.

I'm certainly no friend of Hamas, but this is absurd.


Two points. . .

One: I don't think Hamas is aiming for the extermination of the Jews. I think their most extreme position calls for an end to the state of Israel which is NOT the same thing as what you're saying. If you can show evidence that Hamas actually advocates the extermination of the Jews, I'll admit I was wrong. (Everyone seemed to support free elections for the Palestinians until they actually exercised that right and voted Hamas into power.)

Two: The violence has gone both ways. If you want to go back to "who started it" (which is unproductive, imho), you'd have to point to events in 1948. If you look at the death tolls since this has begun, it's pretty lopsided as to who has been getting killed. Just off the top of my head, I seem to recall seeing the figure 6 to 1 since 1967. Anyone have better info? And then there's the matter of Israel's actions that show that they do not want just to live in peace as sovereign neighbors--bulldozing homes, illegal settlements, the wall, checkpoints, etc.

ETA: When you say Hamas must be eliminated, are you calling for the extermination of the Palestinians?

 

[Texas]

Yup. . . more violence.

A point I made before: why is that people think the enemy can be cowed into submission by violence, but "we" are different and will fight back?

.

Well Japan, Italy and Germany must be exceptions to the rule not to mention every war fought since cavemen picked up a club. Violence can subdue ANY enemy if violent enough.

 

[DC]

Well Japan, Italy and Germany must be exceptions to the rule not to mention every war fought since cavemen picked up a club. Violence can subdue ANY enemy if violent enough.

Violence can subdue ANY enemy if violent enough. ?
are those your thoughts or did you quote Hamas?

 

[Texas]

Violence can subdue ANY enemy if violent enough. ?
are those your thoughts or did you quote Hamas?

No I just pointed out an immutable fact.

 

[DC]

No I just pointed out an immutable fact.

do you think violence is a good solution?

 

[Texas]

do you think violence is a good solution?

I think violence is an effective solution that has been tested since the dawn of man. Peace at any cost has failed on every occasion since the dawn of man.

 

[DrBaltar]

When you say Hamas must be eliminated, are you calling for the extermination of the Palestinians?

I'm talking about Hamas, the subset of Palestinians who's charter is "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."

And this goes back further than 1948. More like since about 1150 BC when they were called the Philistines.

 

[DrBaltar]

and i gues alot Palestinians feel intruded.

Why should they? They were the ones who first invaded Gaza 3000 years ago.

 

[DC]

Why should they? They were the ones who first invaded Gaza 3000 years ago.

so you think Palestina should still belong to Egypt?

 

[DrBaltar]

I think Hamas should honor the cease fire and pursue something else other than Israel's destruction for a change. But since they can't... he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

 

[DC]

I think Hamas should honor the cease fire and pursue something else other than Israel's destruction for a change. But since they can't... he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

yeah i dont mind the Hamas guys geting killed. I think more about those Palestinians without swords.

 

[Slayhamlet]

And this goes back further than 1948. More like since about 1150 BC when they were called the Philistines.

Why should they? They were the ones who first invaded Gaza 3000 years ago.

Just when you thought an Israel/Palestine thread couldn't get any stupider.

 

[Slayhamlet]

Looks like "Texas" and "DrBaltar" won't be satisfied with anything less than a Palestinian equivalent of the Hama massacre. Jesus.

 

[portlandatheist]

If Hamas had the power, there would be no Israel and there would be peace. Decisive victories bring peace. Stalemates, standoffs, ceasefires, and middle east peace treaties are recipes for continued violence.
There is a huge difference between Hamas and Israel. Israel is perfectly willing to abide by peace treaties and ceasefires and leave well enough alone.
Hamas will never follow through on any peace deal or cease fire agreement and will never be willing to peacefully coexist with Israel as its neighbor. Hamas's ideology is most clearly racist, sexist, fascist, and violent.
Come on people, everybody who is asking for a "ceasefire" knows exactly what that means, the same as the "ceasefire" that was previously negotiated. A ceasefire will just mean Israel continues to be bombarded with rockets and no withdrawal of troops, ending the blockade, or land exchange is going to change that.
Remember all the people who claimed that if Isreal left the Gaza strip, that would bring them peace? yeah right...There is absolutely nothing Israel can do sans ceasing to exist, that would end Hamas's campaign against them. A peace deal would not be worth the paper it is written on.

 

[DC]

sounds like a some are asking for an Endlösung