What Skeptic means

truethat said:
Σκέφτομαι

Now if you look you can see that its the word Skeptic in there

The first letter is the Greek S then the K E F TO P A I
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The letter which you claim is a P is actually an M. Could you not have checked?

I still have no idea what, if anything, your point is, I just thought that you'd like to know.
 
I speak Japanese and in Japanese "skeptic" means "smarter than TrueThat." Don't bother looking it up in any Japanese dictionary, just trust me because I speak Japanese.
 
truethat said:
I dont' care if it means Skeptic or not to you the point of the OP is HOW do you approach skepticism. The derailment of that idea onto a game of semantics is silly to me but the other posters would not go forward until that point was addressed.
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The "game of semantics" was started by the OP, which claimed that because a word had a particular meaning in Greek, a similar English word should only be used for the same meaning.

I have, in the past, used the word "wetter" to mean "more wet". I now find that in German, the word means "weather". Would you claim that I shouldn't use it to mean "more wet"? That's the argument you make in the OP as far as the word "skeptic" is concerned.
 
Mojo said:
The "game of semantics" was started by the OP, which claimed that because a word had a particular meaning in Greek, a similar English word should only be used for the same meaning.

I have, in the past, used the word "wetter" to mean "more wet". I now find that in German, the word means "weather". Would you claim that I shouldn't use it to mean "more wet"? That's the argument you make in the OP as far as the word "skeptic" is concerned.
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What's the German for "father"? What about "weather father", like if he's a dad and does the weather forecasts?!!!
 
Mojo said:
I have, in the past, used the word "wetter" to mean "more wet". I now find that in German, the word means "weather". Would you claim that I shouldn't use it to mean "more wet"? That's the argument you make in the OP as far as the word "skeptic" is concerned.
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If push comes to shove in this bizarre move for a more Laconic, Spartan dictionary, you - in Nor Flanden - have local dialect as an option :)

More Wet: Pea Sindahn
More Dry: Ghiza Pyntmayte
 
truethat said:
I found that you engaged in thinking and posted in such a way.
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Thank you... I think. However, I don't know, but I'm wondering if you're equating "engaging in thinking" with a somewhat less confrontational style?

There has been some acceptable reasoning here, even from those making "other comments." Just because someone is harsh, does not automatically make them wrong.

You seemed to try to get at what I was intending even if I wasn't clear.
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Sort of... I had many of the thoughts that others have expressed here. Again, many people have many different approaches, at many different times, to skepticism.

...

Either way, however we wind up sorting-out the language issue, "doubt" is probably a healthy component of "thinking." Doubt has served me well in a practical sense, as coworkers keep sending me chain emails or telling tall tales over lunch. My boss relies on me now to do checks at snopes.com whenever he gets a weird email. The only consideration is that you have to know when to curtail doubt (usually when quick action, with limited information, is required).
 
thaiboxerken said:
I speak Japanese and in Japanese "skeptic" means "smarter than TrueThat." Don't bother looking it up in any Japanese dictionary, just trust me because I speak Japanese.
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Ah, that's why I could never find Skeptic magazine in Japan. The title probably made no sense to the nihonjin.
 
See, TT, here's the real problem:

You come to a skeptic forum, and in the process of setting up the OP, you made a specific claim. That claim, that in Greek, Skeptic means Thinker, can NOT go unexamined, in a forum for skeptics. That claim, like all others, is to be examined (thus, the term skeptic, from the original Greek for 'examine').

In examining that claim, we have consulted the lexicons and other Greek speakers, and found that claim to be unsupported. Skeptic is not a word in Greek. There are words with similar-appearing structures, which may even share a common root; but the actual word 'skeptic' does not, itself, exist in the Greek.

So you have since moved the goalposts, and instead are now claiming that you can see 'skeptic' in words like 'skeftomai', so they must have a similar meaning. Yet, as pointed out by others, you can see words like 'corps' in 'corpse', 'heat' in 'wheat', and let's not even talk about 'assume' or 'dictionary'.

In this 'semantics game', as you've chosen to call it, what's happening, is that you've presented a claim, and the skeptics are examining that claim; and rather than join in the skepticism, you've instead taken on your claim as a sacred cow, defending it dogmatically against all evidence.

So in a way, our attack on your initial claim IS exactly what this thread is about - we're demonstrating an actual skeptical methodology, while you're demonstrating a dogmatic methodology. Rather than simply accepting your husband's claim, we're examining that claim, and finding it invalid; and rather than examining the claim yourself, you're dogmatically attempting to defend his claim, using methods that skeptics first began criticizing the stoics for ages ago.

So while your purpose for posting this thread may have been to get at how people approach skepticism, the fact is that the discussion over the meaning of 'skeptic' is itself a fine demonstration of the skeptical approach versus the dogmatic approach.

Congratulations for starting a fine thread!
 
Southwind17 said:
... I really think so!
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Not to get off topic... but it appears your avatar is turning Japanese... I really think so....

(oh... and what's wrong with doubting everything until proven otherwise? I think that's prudent-- and way cool too.)
 
truethat said:
No I don't have thin skin and I don't mind attack. My husband was laughing his ass off at the people on here. There's a fine line between being cleverly snarky and just being a fool to win an argument.

The word skeptic in Greek means thinker. I don't care what your Greek dictionaries say, contact a Greek speaking person. It is a regular word used every day to mean thinking.

He thought it was hysterical that a bunch of people sat around with Greek dictionaries telling a Greek speaking person they were wrong about their language.

I think the whole things is a real indicator of what is wrong with the way people's intelligence is grown in the world today that the authority of a quick sound bite or a random snatch from a dictionary byline is supposed to be enough "EVIDENCE" to trump someone who actually speaks the language.

I don't want to say what that comes across to me. But it ain't smart.
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Apparently, you seemed to have missed that words change meaning over time. Specifically, "skeptic" and its ancient Greek root "skopeo/skopeomai" mean to "look at, examine", making "skeptikos" "one who looks at examines". What you are doing is taking the meaning of the modern Greek cognate for "skeptic" and projecting it back onto the English word, which was derived from the ancient Greek word.
 
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articulett said:
Not to get off topic... but it appears your avatar is turning Japanese... I really think so....
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I suppose it's the vapors that are affecting me ... I really think so ... (BTW - I've got your picture ... I've got your picture!)
 
Not to be contrarian or anything, but my Greek dictionary does have the word "skeptic". It is an English/Greek dictionary, so perhaps it is merely transliterating the english word, but it does not appear so, as it gives the masculine and feminine adjective endings as well as the base word "skeptic" itself. And yes, further down the page are skeftikos and skeftomai, so it is a separate word. These latter are "thoughtful" (skefticos) and "think about, think up, have in mind, etc." (skeftomai), whereas "skeptik|istis, ~istria" is defined as "sceptic".
 
Mercutio said:
Not to be contrarian or anything, but my Greek dictionary does have the word "skeptic". It is an English/Greek dictionary, so perhaps it is merely transliterating the english word, but it does not appear so, as it gives the masculine and feminine adjective endings as well as the base word "skeptic" itself. And yes, further down the page are skeftikos and skeftomai, so it is a separate word. These latter are "thoughtful" (skefticos) and "think about, think up, have in mind, etc." (skeftomai), whereas "skeptik|istis, ~istria" is defined as "sceptic".
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Fascinating. My own dictionary translates 'skeptic' into 'skeptikistis', which, itself, has a different origin and root from 'skeftomai'. The root is clearly different - like 'cleft' and 'klept', they share a similar structure and sound, but have very different meanings.

Sounds like some general confusion on the part of TT's hubby.
 
Mercutio said:
Not to be contrarian or anything, but my Greek dictionary does have the word "skeptic". It is an English/Greek dictionary, so perhaps it is merely transliterating the english word, but it does not appear so, as it gives the masculine and feminine adjective endings as well as the base word "skeptic" itself. And yes, further down the page are skeftikos and skeftomai, so it is a separate word. These latter are "thoughtful" (skefticos) and "think about, think up, have in mind, etc." (skeftomai), whereas "skeptik|istis, ~istria" is defined as "sceptic".
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The point is, as I mentioned earlier, the modern Greek meaning meaning of the word seems to have developed independently of its English cognate, which seems to derive from the earlier ancient (Attic) Greek meaning. Nonetheless, it is interesting to note that, even in the Classical period, the adjective skeptikos meant "thoughtful", making the absolutive usage mean something close to "one who is thoughtful" (which could could conceivably be different than "one who thinks; thinker"), whereas the verb skopeo/skopeomai meant "look at; examine".
 
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