What Really Happened on 9/11?

[Hellbound]

You know, oddly, enough, have proof at home in my closet that "regular", non jet fueled fires can weaken, soften, and semi-melt steel.

It's a hand-forged replica of a c. 1200 longsword.

Hand-forged in a wood fire from industrial steel. Soft enough to be bent and shaped with a hammer and an arm.

I can take a picture, if anyone requires that, but considering that steel was heated and shaped for years before we had any type of fire fuel much more advanced than wood/charcoal, I believe this is a non-argument.

 

[hellaeon]

no they are

CTers are like cockroaches. In huge groups they win because they're just too yucky to deal with. Alone and exposed to light, they either scurry away or get squished.

...dingoes....

 

[Bronze Dog]

Just checked out the Loose Screw forum. Roxie, while claiming we refuse to debate the Loosers, has posted screenshots showing that threads on this topic are at the top of the JREF board -- meaning, of course, that we're vigorously debating them.

These people will believe anything, no matter how self-contradictory, as long as it fits their world-view.

<Makes note to self to write conspiracy book.>

Governments love it when their citizens are capable of double-think, right?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Bravely bold Sir Roxdog
Rode forth from Loose Change board.
He was not afraid to lie,
Oh brave Sir Roxdog.
He was not at all afraid
To skew truth in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Roxdog.

He was not in the least bit scared
To fill the web with pulp.
Or to have the facts thrown out,
And the words misquoted.
To have opponents banned
And all dissent brushed away,
And his math all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Roxdog.

His pics too moot
And his font too large
And his God of gaps
And his forum plugged
And his gov't theory
And his New World Order
And his pen--

"That's... that's enough music for now lads, *** there's dirty work afoot*** ???."

Brave Sir Roxdog ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When logic reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Roxdog turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
****Bravely**** taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Roxdog!

 

[CptFarlow]

Because they will exploit every opportunity they can find - or make up - to take advantage of the brutal deaths of thousands of people.

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths. There are so many things on that day that just don't add up...and you guys aren't helping. I'm skeptical about explosives being places in the building just like anybody...but with the squibs and the fact that fires should not have brought them down...it is a possibility. Especially with WTC7 collapsing perfectly onto itself...just like a controlled demolition.

If you guys are so sure that there is no conspiracy and that the holes in the Government's story are all hogwash, then how would an independent investigation hurt you? They would simply prove that you were right, right? WRONG. The WTC collapse isn't the only strange coincidence that happened on that day...you'd be surprised what denial can do to somebody...

 

[ntech]

The multiple booms were a simple fact that the top floors collapsed onto the floor where the plane hit after the extreme heat of the burning jet fuel weakened the center support. This caused a weight so great that it cascaded down. This would account for the multiple sounds as the cascade began.

I was watching one of the towers out of our window as it fell. There were no secondary explosive charges. The smoke puffs would have been visible.

 

[Bronze Dog]

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths.

I'm not normally one to guess at motivations, but one guess is that he's trying to get attention.

There are so many things on that day that just don't add up...and you guys aren't helping.

I'll agree with that: By showing that they do add up, we're not helping the conspiracy nuts.

I'm skeptical about explosives being places in the building just like anybody...but with the squibs...

Show us the squibs.

...and the fact that fires should not have brought them down...

So why'd they bother coating the structure with fire retardant?

it is a possibility.

Anything's possible, but I have yet to see a reason to consider it.

Especially with WTC7 collapsing perfectly onto itself...just like a controlled demolition.

Perfectly... Yeah, right.

If you guys are so sure that there is no conspiracy and that the holes in the Government's story are all hogwash, then how would an independent investigation hurt you? They would simply prove that you were right, right? WRONG. The WTC collapse isn't the only strange coincidence that happened on that day...you'd be surprised what denial can do to somebody...

Hey, we aren't stopping conspiracy believer from saying or investigating anything. He just whines when we point out the gaping holes in his sloppy investigation.

 

[Pardalis]

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths. There are so many things on that day that just don't add up...and you guys aren't helping. I'm skeptical about explosives being places in the building just like anybody...but with the squibs and the fact that fires should not have brought them down...it is a possibility. Especially with WTC7 collapsing perfectly onto itself...just like a controlled demolition.

If you guys are so sure that there is no conspiracy and that the holes in the Government's story are all hogwash, then how would an independent investigation hurt you? They would simply prove that you were right, right? WRONG. The WTC collapse isn't the only strange coincidence that happened on that day...you'd be surprised what denial can do to somebody...

Coincidences happen at every second of every hour of every day. It's just that some people will link them together arbitrarely for some events to make up a theory. It's called clinical paranoya.

 

[RandFan]

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths. There are so many things on that day that just don't add up...and you guys aren't helping. I'm skeptical about explosives being places in the building just like anybody...but with the squibs and the fact that fires should not have brought them down...it is a possibility. Especially with WTC7 collapsing perfectly onto itself...just like a controlled demolition.

If you guys are so sure that there is no conspiracy and that the holes in the Government's story are all hogwash, then how would an independent investigation hurt you? They would simply prove that you were right, right? WRONG. The WTC collapse isn't the only strange coincidence that happened on that day...you'd be surprised what denial can do to somebody...

Bring on the investigation. I'm not against it. There are investigation going on right now. BTW, if you were questioning the conventional wisdom of Loose Change right now you would be told to "do your homework". There is no skepticism over there. They have the truth. Have you been there?

 

[Shaun from Scotland]

The multiple booms were a simple fact that the top floors collapsed onto the floor where the plane hit after the extreme heat of the burning jet fuel weakened the center support. This caused a weight so great that it cascaded down. This would account for the multiple sounds as the cascade began.

I was watching one of the towers out of our window as it fell. There were no secondary explosive charges. The smoke puffs would have been visible.

You are a liar. Im not going to explain why you are a liar. Im just going to call you a liar. Because obviously you are. Because there obviously were secondary explosions. I can't actually show you any but your still a liar. Because there were. Dont use any fancy words like "evidence" and high faluting concepts like "Occams Razor". Only liars do that. Your all liars with your skepticism, need for facts, peer reviewed evidence and common sense. The word of two "scientists" who aren't actually structural engineers is enough for me. Its so obvious why can't you see it? And dont give me all this peer-reviewed articles by genuine scientists pish, which use fancy stuff like mathematics and physics. They are liars. Like all of you. LIARS LIARS LIARS!!!!

Hmmm...no sorry Im not doing woo. It makes me feel ill.

 

[Pardalis]

The 9-11 conspiracy theory is anything but an investigation.

 

[Manny]

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths.

Yes he is, and no he's not. He is using the terrorist acts which were perpetrated on 9-11 by radical Islamists to feed his own visceral hatred of the United States. He is actively aiding al Qaeda by trying to deflect from them the blame for the terrorist acts that day. You want a conspiracy theory to investigate? Here's one -- are his politics sufficient for him to try to foist such a ridiculous fraud on the American people or is he also on al Qaeda's payroll? Personally, I think it's the former; I'll leave it to you to investigate other possibilities.

 

[Pardalis]

Yes he is, and no he's not. He is using the terrorist acts which were perpetrated on 9-11 by radical Islamists to feed his own visceral hatred of the United States. He is actively aiding al Qaeda by trying to deflect from them the blame for the terrorist acts that day. You want a conspiracy theory to investigate? Here's one -- are his politics sufficient for him to try to foist such a ridiculous fraud on the American people or is he also on al Qaeda's payroll? Personally, I think it's the former; I'll leave it to you to investigate other possibilities.

I don't know if you've noticed, when you ask them about Al Quaida and the islamist extremism (like the reactions overs the ridiculus Danish caricatures) they will vaguely acknoledge it and not elaborate on the subject. They acknoledge it because it is an obvious fact (millions of protesters on the streets of Iran and Indonesia, that's hard to miss). But they still want to hold on to their conspiracy theory. It seems they want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Shaun from Scotland]

Yes he is, and no he's not. He is using the terrorist acts which were perpetrated on 9-11 by radical Islamists to feed his own visceral hatred of the United States.

Possibly, but I think its more to do with inflating his sense of self worth. The need to feel special is tremendously powerful. It can blind you to reason.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

How dare you...conspiracybeliever isn't trying to take advantage of those people! He is simply asking questions about the extreme nature of their deaths. There are so many things on that day that just don't add up...and you guys aren't helping. I'm skeptical about explosives being places in the building just like anybody...but with the squibs and the fact that fires should not have brought them down...it is a possibility. Especially with WTC7 collapsing perfectly onto itself...just like a controlled demolition.

If you guys are so sure that there is no conspiracy and that the holes in the Government's story are all hogwash, then how would an independent investigation hurt you? They would simply prove that you were right, right? WRONG. The WTC collapse isn't the only strange coincidence that happened on that day...you'd be surprised what denial can do to somebody...

Who knows why he does what he does and says what he says. Worst case scenario: He IS exploiting thousands of deaths for his own benefit. Best case scenario: He is calling for an investigation that he will reject out of hand if it doesn't come to the conclusions he thinks it should, thus wasting everyone's time.

Neither choice, nor any of the rest in between, is very good and neither makes him worthy of being taken seriously.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Possibly, but I think its more to do with inflating his sense of self worth. The need to feel special is tremendously powerful. It can blind you to reason.

Oh yeah. From personal experience, I can tell you that a big attraction of conspiraicy theories is the fact that you feel special because you know THE TRUTHtm.

 

[CptFarlow]

Yes he is, and no he's not. He is using the terrorist acts which were perpetrated on 9-11 by radical Islamists to feed his own visceral hatred of the United States. He is actively aiding al Qaeda by trying to deflect from them the blame for the terrorist acts that day. You want a conspiracy theory to investigate? Here's one -- are his politics sufficient for him to try to foist such a ridiculous fraud on the American people or is he also on al Qaeda's payroll? Personally, I think it's the former; I'll leave it to you to investigate other possibilities.

Are you kidding me? Do you really believe what you just said? He, along with many others are proposing a theory that it wasn't Osama bin Laden to pull off these attacks. As stated before...there are waaaayyyy too many holes in the official story. Look at how much money some of the top leaders in this country are making. Dick Cheney is raking in the green, mixed with Iraq and New Orleans. They do not care for the public interest, they simply want more money, more power. After all, power corrupts.

I tried to post some evidence here, but found that I can't post URLs until I have 15 posts...

 

[Shaun from Scotland]

Oh yeah. From personal experience, I can tell you that a big attraction of conspiraicy theories is the fact that you feel special because you know THE TRUTHtm.

Plus, you can make your windows password "trustnoone" and hope an attractive redhead talks to you once in a while without using the phrase "get lost creep"....

 

[Shaun from Scotland]

Are you kidding me? Do you really believe what you just said? He, along with many others are proposing a theory that it wasn't Osama bin Laden to pull off these attacks. As stated before...there are waaaayyyy too many holes in the official story. Look at how much money some of the top leaders in this country are making. Dick Cheney is raking in the green, mixed with Iraq and New Orleans. They do not care for the public interest, they simply want more money, more power. After all, power corrupts.

I tried to post some evidence here, but found that I can't post URLs until I have 15 posts...

This is anecdoatal evidence. Whether or not Cheney and his cronies are making money off Iraq is irrelevant to what happened at the WTC. Give us real, checkable evidence, not insinuation, speculation and a series of maybes.

 

[Pardalis]

I tried to post some evidence here, but found that I can't post URLs until I have 15 posts...

If you can post credible, objective sources I will gladly read.