What Really Happened on 9/11?

[Trifikas]

So, explosions being reported BEFORE the collapse? How do you explain that? I'm sure you'll think of something...no matter how inplausible. :lol:

Maybe something was on fire?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Oh pu-leeze

If you beleive that the fall of the WTC was a controlled demolition, then I am sure you must have good answers to the following questions.

1) Why would they bother? If the conspiracy is so callous as to kill everyone in the towers and on the planes, why go to the extra trouble of making a 'Controlled Demolition'. Wouldn't a demolition that topples the towers into other buildings have been even MORE effective at spreading the fear and terror that the conspiracy allegedly wants?

2) Exactly how did the conspiracy manage to pull off all the cosntruction work and haul in all the explosive necessary for a 'controlled demolition' without anyone noticing it?

3) What hard evidence is there that this is a 'controlled demolition'? I am talking actual physical evidence, like remains of girders partially cut through (which one would expect to find in a 'controlled demolition'), for example. Finding some holes in the 'official story' does not constitute evidence of YOUR story.

Those three will do for now. I don't quite have Claus' flair for lists. But one more thing. One of you links has an engineer saying that the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a 707. This may well be true, I don't know, but for argument's sake, I'll accept it. It's still a BS argument because sometimes design fails. The Titanic was DESIGNED to be able to stay afloat if the hull was punctured, Columbia and Challenger were DESIGNED to be able to fly to and fro from space without blowing up, etc.

 

[rwguinn]

As I understand it, the construction of a skyscraper looks like this:
The supports, whether made from steel, platinum or quantum particles (TM), are constructed to withstand substancial, but not indefinite pressure in the height. As such it is a highly complicated puzzle, kind of like creating a house of cards.
As any ever having constructed one of these will know, all it takes is one missing support and the entire thing collapses. DOWNWARD!

More than one--there is a safety factor of some value in there--probably a factor of between 3 and 5, which means you can take out a lot of supports, and still stand, as long as the ones remmoved are spaced evenly and relatively symetrically--which the airplane did not leave behind. It unfortunately concentrated its KE on one side..

Now let's have a look at the events of 9/11 (which i saw live on television and which probably cost me one of my more remote email buddies all though I never knew her real name and so never can be entirely certain even if her emails went dead arround that time. Conspiracy?) shall we?
The supports of the twin towers were constructed in sections to bear a certain amount of pressure (measured in metric tons arround these parts) downwards. This can be seen in the "pyramid" patterns of the beams in the black and white photo found in post 15 of this thread which serves to strengthen the supporting (please notice this word, conspiracybeliver) skeleton by spreading the pressure in the beams over a greater area than the supports (again that word) individually covers.
Each floor is "hung" from these supports and several interfloor supports helps in spreading the pressure evenly. Again a word you should notice "Evenly".

good choice!

Now lets pretend someone, say a maniac taleban leader born in saudi arabia and with the worlds worst beard not to mention a mission to prove the west that he can hit them anywhere he wants in an attempt to make them give in to his demands, decides to ram the building from the side with a fully fueled and loaded aircraft, then what would happen?
At this point, I suggest a pratical demonstration. Take 5 beercans (or sodacans if you, as I suspect, are under the legal age of consumption of alcohol)

Dadggum--you edited it too quick for me. Canning "bears" is cruel. Beers are ok to can!

and place four of them in a square with the last dead center. Now put a piece of plywood on top of them and stand on it directly above the center can. Then have your little buddies remove the 4 "corners".
If you have done this correctly, and stands still, you should still be standing a cans height over the ground on a piece of plywood. This is the priciple behind support beams: They support your weight by distributing the weight.
Now have one of your buddies deform the can with a poker or a long metal rod. This would be the airplane.
See what happens? You fall down.
That is, roughly, what happened with the towers.
The plane that our not so theoritical terrorist from Afganistan via Saudi Arabia deformed the support system of the tower and moved the balance point of the bulding. Due to the construction of the building, the thing kept up for a while, but continious fires inside the building, as illustrated by the billowing collumns of smoke coming out through that rather big hole in the side, which also supplied the fires with oxygen, softened/melted what was left of the support system (that word again) of the building. This, combined with the skewed, and highly added weight, of the already collapsed floors caused the building to collapse into itself.
The balance point of the building were only marginally skewed, which explains the "telescope" movement, but it was skewed as a closer scrutinasation of the original tapes from that day will testify to.
This skewing of the balance point of a construction is also why it's dangerous to be inside a badly constructed building during an earthquake. Ever seen broadcasts from some of the big earthquakes? Noticed how the building have in many instances collapsed inside itself?
This is the reason.

ETA: Spelling.. Bearcans indeed....

Good experiment--and the amazing thing is that if the crippling load (poke) is in an upper can, the lower cans collapse too! With sounds like they were being crushed. And individual puffs of air. And at very close to free-fall timing!

 

[headscratcher4]

Oh pu-leeze

If you beleive that the fall of the WTC was a controlled demolition, then I am sure you must have good answers to the following questions.

1) Why would they bother? If the conspiracy is so callous as to kill everyone in the towers and on the planes, why go to the extra trouble of making a 'Controlled Demolition'. Wouldn't a demolition that topples the towers into other buildings have been even MORE effective at spreading the fear and terror that the conspiracy allegedly wants?

2) Exactly how did the conspiracy manage to pull off all the cosntruction work and haul in all the explosive necessary for a 'controlled demolition' without anyone noticing it?

3) What hard evidence is there that this is a 'controlled demolition'? I am talking actual physical evidence, like remains of girders partially cut through (which one would expect to find in a 'controlled demolition'), for example. Finding some holes in the 'official story' does not constitute evidence of YOUR story.

Those three will do for now. I don't quite have Claus' flair for lists. But one more thing. One of you links has an engineer saying that the WTC was designed to withstand the impact of a 707. This may well be true, I don't know, but for argument's sake, I'll accept it. It's still a BS argument because sometimes design fails. The Titanic was DESIGNED to be able to stay afloat if the hull was punctured, Columbia and Challenger were DESIGNED to be able to fly to and fro from space without blowing up, etc.

Clearly, evil, yet careful, property developers were at work! Also, see my earlier post, they built the demolition into the structure when they constructed the buildings back in the 70's so that they could pull the trigger, as it were, when the real estate market shifted.

 

[kedo1981]

Answer Larson's ?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Clearly, evil, yet careful, property developers were at work! Also, see my earlier post, they built the demolition into the structure when they constructed the buildings back in the 70's so that they could pull the trigger, as it were, when the real estate market shifted.

Though offered in jest, that's a more realistic answer than I have ever gotten from any of these 9/11 conspiracy woos.

 

[headscratcher4]

Though offered in jest, that's a more realistic answer than I have ever gotten from any of these 9/11 conspiracy woos.

Clearly, you've never read the Protocols of the Builders of Pylon.

 

[kookbreaker]

Good experiment--and the amazing thing is that if the crippling load (poke) is in an upper can, the lower cans collapse too! With sounds like they were being crushed. And individual puffs of air. And at very close to free-fall timing!

I used to do The Fire's experiment for the Science Museum, except it was with a grade school volunteer. I used paper cups, and a plexiglass panel tostand on. I'd start with 9 cups and the kids would be able to stand on it and march in palce no problem. Then I'd remove all but four of the cups. The kid would still be held up, but if he moved (dead load to live load) the collapse would be instant, and all cups would be crushed.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Clearly, you've never read the Protocols of the Builders of Pylon.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.911myths.com/index.html

Most questions answered here. You will have to read it, though.

 

[c4ts]

Clearly, you've never read the Protocols of the Builders of Pylon.

1. Be evil
2. Take over world
3. YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS
4. Zealot rush!

 

[Manny]

3) What hard evidence is there that this is a 'controlled demolition'? I am talking actual physical evidence, like remains of girders partially cut through (which one would expect to find in a 'controlled demolition'), for example. Finding some holes in the 'official story' does not constitute evidence of YOUR story.

Well, see, the conspirators spirited away the steel. Below, you can see a picture of how They cunningly hid it between the feet of NIST examiners.

(Note to mods: Government publications, including pictures, are not eligible for copyright under US law. The source for the photo below was NIST, an agency of the US government.)

 

[Bronze Dog]

Be careful around those pylons.

 

[conspiracybeliever]

Actually, NIST did,

I'm talking about WTC7. Not the same as WTC 1 and 2. Nice try though...

 

[conspiracybeliever]

Both those guys are, IMO, Hacks. I am working to get their licenses pulled, if they are licensed at all. No actual, working Engineer who knoews any structural and material theory supports your claim.
The "Stripe" you see looks like a bulge to me, which tells me things are failing. The "Squib" as you call it, is either a pigeon flying by or a window blowing out.
Get a life, and take your spam back to the Loose Change bunch.

RW G, PE (Colorado)
Mechanical, structural, and Loads Engineering

You would think a "Mechanical, structural, and Loads Engineer" would be able to back up his statements with some sort of explanation. No, instead he plans to stalking Dr. Jones and Jeff King.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'm talking about WTC7. Not the same as WTC 1 and 2. Nice try though...

I don't believe you mentioned that in an earlier post in this thread. I may have missed it. Could you link it for me?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Really? We can't look at the available facts and draw educated conclusions from them?

Warning: Irony Alert! Warning! Warning!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...Let's get a commission to investigate.

An excellent idea. Please spend the rest of your life conducting bake sales and car washes to raise the necessary funds.

 

[CFLarsen]

You would think a "Mechanical, structural, and Loads Engineer" would be able to back up his statements with some sort of explanation. No, instead he plans to stalking Dr. Jones and Jeff King.

That's nice.

I didn't ask if my "theories" debunk your "facts".

I asked if you acknowledge that the conspiracy requires the five events listed.

Yes or no?

 

[chance]

conspiracybeliever You are being manipulated by the evil aliens that live inside the bodies of many of our leaders, they have long since realised that only the ‘truly sceptical™’ have the insight to see through their master plan for world domination, so they deflect attention from themselves by creating conspiracy theories to keep you all occupied. The world is relying on people like you, please for all mankind, see the conspiracy behind the conspiracy before it’s too late………….., “whats that noise?” “just a minute someones in the kitchen” ……. Mmmmmmfffffff, mmmmmmmfffffffffff, Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.