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What must be said

But don't they deny they have such weapons?

shhhh!

we don't talk about it....and I do understand that not all criticism of Israel is anti-semitism. In this thread I learned its actually anti-semitism and blood libel.
 
I realise Google Translate leaves much to the imagination, but does that really qualify as poetry?
 
You know what she means. The point is that Gunter Grass was not honest about his past while demanding that others be far more so about theirs. You do agree with that, right?

If it had any connection with the issue, then yes it would be a factor. But he has complained about one country trash talking another while apparently doing the same thing. The fact that people are trying to connect his comments to some non existent Nazi connection is not addressing his comments, but trying discredit him
 
I realise Google Translate leaves much to the imagination, but does that really qualify as poetry?

I am definitely no expert - but my understanding is the syntax of German language construction direct translates very badly to English
 
Israel gets criticized and issues their usual over-the-top reaction. Happens almost as often as the sun comes up.

Yeah, they are a bit hyper-sensitive about the risk of genocide aren't they. Those obstinate Isrealis should really try and compromise... maybe they can get a promise of only 50% of the Jews killed and the rest dhimmified if they ask nicely. It will be for peace! PEACE!!
 
You know what she means. The point is that Gunter Grass was not honest about his past while demanding that others be far more so about theirs. You do agree with that, right?



And if you had been in 1940's Germany you'd have been first in the queue to join the Waffen SS, in my opinion.

Or perhaps, he would be the Churchill to your Chamberlain?
 
Yeah, they are a bit hyper-sensitive about the risk of genocide aren't they. Those obstinate Isrealis should really try and compromise... maybe they can get a promise of only 50% of the Jews killed and the rest dhimmified if they ask nicely. It will be for peace! PEACE!!

I feel the same way about people who use the term "dhimmified" as Terry Pratchett feels about people who use multiple exclamation marks.
 
Or perhaps, he would be the Churchill to your Chamberlain?

Ha ha! The Bumper Book of Cliches from which a lot of people derive their "wisdom" is always ready with the bon mot.

No, Churchill didn't have an inordinate capacity for rationalizing and revelling in any and every killing, war, napalming, bombing and nuking of people he didn't like. Virus has a truly astonishing appetite for it and would probably be just the type of material the Einsatzgruppen were looking for, in my humble opinion.
 
Yeah, they are a bit hyper-sensitive about the risk of genocide aren't they. Those obstinate Isrealis should really try and compromise... maybe they can get a promise of only 50% of the Jews killed and the rest dhimmified if they ask nicely. It will be for peace! PEACE!!

Note to self: buy insect repellent.
 
If it had any connection with the issue, then yes it would be a factor. But he has complained about one country trash talking another while apparently doing the same thing. The fact that people are trying to connect his comments to some non existent Nazi connection is not addressing his comments, but trying discredit him

Okay, let's look at his poem title, "What Must Be Said".

It is a terrible title; he is using the passive construction and avoiding a more obvious title such as "What I Must Say" which would be fair enough but instead "What Must Be Said" suggests he is yet again urging a moral duty on others, us? Germany? Europe? The West? Where does he get off playing the Olympian disembodied moral arbiter of "What Must Be Said"?
 
Okay, let's look at his poem title, "What Must Be Said".

It is a terrible title; he is using the passive construction and avoiding a more obvious title such as "What I Must Say" which would be fair enough but instead "What Must Be Said" suggests he is yet again urging a moral duty on others, us? Germany? Europe? The West? Where does he get off playing the Olympian disembodied moral arbiter of "What Must Be Said"?

Are you criticising his technique, or his message?
 
Are you criticising his technique, or his message?

Well the criticism is of both. His message isn't clear either through poor or deliberately obscurantist technique. Don't you think?

Hmmm...maybe he's talking about himself:

Why I am silent, silent about too long,
what is obvious and in simulations
was practiced, at the end as survivors
, we are at best footnotes.

It is alleged that on the first strike
of the enslaved from bullies
and to organized guided cheers
could destroy Iranian people,
because in the sphere of building
a nuclear bomb is suspected.

I like that line "a nuclear bomb is suspected".

But why do I say to myself,
to call that other country by name,
in the years since - though secret -
a growing nuclear capabilities available
but out of control, because no test
is available?


The general concealment of this fact,
which my silence subordinate,
I find incriminating lies
and coercion, the penalty is in prospect,
if he is ignored;
the verdict of "antisemitism" is familiar.


But now, because in my country,
that of innate crimes
that are without comparison,
sought time to time and will be taken to task,
in turn, and purely commercial basis, even if
declared with nimble lip as reparation,
another U-boat to Israel
delivered should be, whose specialty
is all-destroying warheads
to be able to steer to where the existence
of a single atomic bomb is unproven,
but wants to be a fear of evidentiary value,
I say what needs to be said.

But why I kept quiet until now?
As I said, my background,
which is never subject to tilgendem blemish,
forbade this fact as a definite truth
to the land of Israel, whom I am connected
and want to stay, be expected.

But then it suggests Germany should speak up and not be cowed into silence by the shame of its past etc...

Why do I say now only
: aged and last ink
the nuclear-armed Israel is endangering
the already fragile world peace?
Because it must be said
, what could already be tomorrow's too late
- in part because we - as a German burden enough
could be suppliers of a crime are
the predictable, which is why our complicity
by any of the usual excuses
would be to pay off.

And admittedly, I am silent no more,
because I was the hypocrisy of the West
'm tired, is also hoped
it might be a lot rid of silence,
the cause of the apparent danger
call to renounce violence and
are also sure
that an unfettered and permanent control
of Israel's nuclear potential
and the Iranian nuclear facilities
by an international authority
of the governments of both countries will be allowed.

Only then is all, the Israelis and Palestinians,
more than that, all the people in this
region occupied by the delusional
enemies living cheek by jowl
, and ultimately to help us.

As you said, it probably loses something in translation.
 
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Ah! I see, a U-Boat to Israel. The Dolphin-class ships are made in Germany, right? So, Grass is blaming Germany for sending weapons to Israel.

I seem to recall from somewhere that Grass tried to enlist in the U-Boat corps during the war...
 
Ah! I see, a U-Boat to Israel. The Dolphin-class ships are made in Germany, right? So, Grass is blaming Germany for sending weapons to Israel.

I seem to recall from somewhere that Grass tried to enlist in the U-Boat corps during the war...

You mean the SS?

Signed,
Former TM1(SS) Sam.I.Am. :D
 

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