What Logical Fallacy Pisses You Off Most

Well there are 6 fallacies that really piss me off:

1. Ex Post Facto
2. Strawman
3. Ad Hominem
4. Subverted Support
5. Fallacy of Exclusion
6. Argumentum ad ignoratium (This is the worst of the bunch. This logical fallacy literally causes me to beat my head on a keyboard.)
 
Orwell said:
I don't see how this can be avoided when it comes to subjects we don't know much about! For instance, what are we supposed to do if the subject in question involves some obscure scientific reasoning? I usually tend to go for the scientific consensus view, which is to say that I believe it because most scientists believe it to be true. A good example of this is the entire global warming argument.
I'll second that, people who know about the subject all believe A therefore is is most probably true is a perfectly valid argument.
 
Kerberos said:
I'll second that, people who know about the subject all believe A therefore is is most probably true is a perfectly valid argument.

No it's not. You are confusing the mere belief by people from the actual facts they might base their belief on. Now those Phd's might believe what they believe because of fact A and B, now those are arguements. But, not just the fact they think so. Not to mention this is usually overblown in arguement. Just like you just said "all believe" or most believe or whatever, when we are basically only hearing from Professor A who was on CNN for 30 seconds, or perhaps 2 or 3 with the same view that were on a show. That is not all nor most nor anything but 2 or 3 people's opinions, albeit learned people on the topic.
 
I hate it when people say I'm just like Hitler for supporting the decision to let Terri Schiavo's body expire.
 
Vagabond said:
No it's not. You are confusing the mere belief by people from the actual facts they might base their belief on. Now those Phd's might believe what they believe because of fact A and B, now those are arguements. But, not just the fact they think so.
Yes just the fact that they think so is an argument, it is not as good an arguement as pointing to the facts that they base their opinion on. Unfortunatly these facts are sometimes unavailiable to us, we just can't understand them because most of us aren't nuclear physicists or we simply don’t hav etime to evaluate them. This is incidentially the same arguments as you use every single time you link to or ask for a link to a mainstream newssource. There is no fundamental difference between the ”the BBC/CNN/IHT ussually don’t invent facts out of thin air, so I’ll believe it happened if they say so” argument implicit in any link or request for one and ”the majority of scientists are ussually right so I’ll believe it if they say so” argument I champion..

Vagabond said:
Not to mention this is usually overblown in arguement. Just like you just said "all believe" or most believe or whatever, when we are basically only hearing from Professor A who was on CNN for 30 seconds, or perhaps 2 or 3 with the same view that were on a show. That is not all nor most nor anything but 2 or 3 people's opinions, albeit learned people on the topic.
In which case you can counter the ”most scientists beleive it” argument, with ”no they don’t 2 or 3 scientists on CNN believe it”.
 
Pet hate number one is the tactic of selectively responding to the weakest claim in someone's post and totally ignoring the other, much stronger claims.

This is perfectly legitimate if the claim under attack is the basis for their entire post, of course. But I seem to remember a lot of exchanges like this in the Politics section:

The people I don't like are in the wrong because of scientific studies A, B and C, confirmed news reports D, E and F, their own remarks quoted on web pages G, H and I and international agreements J, K and L.

We all know web site H is blatantly biased.

My other is the Socratic Retreat, where you avoid confronting the weakness of your own position by asking a potentially endless series of of pseudo-Socratic questions. Even if your opponent gives a good answer, you can just claim they missed the point and then ask the question again only with different phrasing.
 
In which case you can counter the ”most scientists beleive it” argument, with ”no they don’t 2 or 3 scientists on CNN believe it”.<<<<

Okay, I shouldn't have said it's not an arguement. I should have said it's not a GOOD arguement. ;) There is nothing wrong with wanting a source or something for somebodies arguement but I get tired of getting asked for a source for everything I say. I might call this the fallacy of I don't feel like going to my bookshelf right now. I have read over 2000 books and have watched countless tv shows and movies. Just the fact I don't remember exactly where I heard or read something or don't feel like spending an hour finding out, doesn't mean what I said is false. That is why that is a poor arguement because I can always find somebody or 2 or 3 who say the opposite. It's a wash usually as far as a point goes.
 
There's not one I most dislike.

Come to think of it perhaps "poisoning the well" - since that just makes everything around it so smelly.

Another that I don't think has a formal name although the childish "Why?" game that is just an attempt to get someone to say at some point "I don’t know" so the other person can gleefully shout out "So you just don’t know do you!!!".

Personally I like to answer that by saying - "No you are right, neither of us know if the baseball bat will hurt you so let’s just try it and see..."


(I even don’t like it when I find I'm playing it...)
 
Kerberos said:
I'll second that, people who know about the subject all believe A therefore is is most probably true is a perfectly valid argument.

The problem with that is that too often the term "people who know about the subject" is defined by the very position on the subject being debated. Those that believe differently obviously don't know about the subject/are biased/are ignorant/are bribed/are lying/etc. It's a form of counting the hits and ignoring [discounting] the misses.
 
I think the strawman and hed herring type arguments are the most irritating. The most pathetic though is what I call the Appeal to Self Authority.

For instance, "I have an IQ of 180" or " I possess x number of degrees in blah, blah, blah." Or a la Tom cruise, whose argument with Matt Lauer could be summed up as "I've studied the history of psychiatry and you haven't so just shut up."
 
David Carroll said:
Or a la Tom cruise, whose argument with Matt Lauer could be summed up as "I've studied the history of psychiatry and you haven't so just shut up."

I suppose we could start a thread devoted entirely to the fallacies Tom Cruise has made in his recent condemnations of psychiatry.

Fallacies such as the false dichotomy: "Ritalin is now a street drug." Even if it is that does not diminish the good that it does some people.
 
Ladewig wrote:
I suppose we could start a thread devoted entirely to the fallacies Tom Cruise has made in his recent condemnations of psychiatry.

Fallacies such as the false dichotomy: "Ritalin is now a street drug." Even if it is that does not diminish the good that it does some people.

Yeah, I was hoping Lauer would try to get Cruise to elaborate on that "connection" but he didn't. Reminded me of those old propaganda flicks they showed us in school warning of the slippery slope from marijuana use to heroin addiction.
 
Me

One thing I really hate (and I am not sure this qualifies) is the technique of dismissing a criticism as invalid because one does not offer a better alternative. The argument being that if you don't have a better solution and criticizm you have of the existing one is not legitimate. And yes, there are people who deliberately introduce strawmen as well as employing other strategies in order to derail any possibility of constructive discussion or reaching common understanding.
 
Re: Me

billydkid said:
One thing I really hate (and I am not sure this qualifies) is the technique of dismissing a criticism as invalid because one does not offer a better alternative. The argument being that if you don't have a better solution and criticizm you have of the existing one is not legitimate.

But (!) sometimes, in an imperfect world, you will have to choose the lesser of two (or more) evils... your best course of action (or inaction) while open to criticism may be better than the alternatives. For criticism to be constructive there has to be an implicit/explicit suggestion of how you could improve.
 
A note about an Appeal to Authority... they are not always a logical fallacy. If I were to say, "James Randi looked at the "psychic" video and said what he saw closely, or exactly, resembled common magic tricks..." That is a proper Appeal to Authority. James Randi, as professional mentalist and magician, should know what a magic trick looks like. If I were to say, "James Randi says that chemotherapy is not the best option for treating my cancer, I should try radiation and surgery instead..." That is an improper appeal to authority. James Randi has no medical specialization to base this on. If he backs it up with evidence that is a different thing entirely and it is no longer an Appeal to Authority, because we can examine the evidence to which he points us instead. An Appeal to Authority is only a fallacy when the authority is making a value judgment, absent verifiable information, or when they are speaking outside their recognized expertise e.g. "Nine out of ten dentists agree that nuclear power is bad..."


My pet peave though is The Fasle Dichotomy. Only because I believe it to be the most widely prevalent and accepted fallacy in use. Politicians use it to their benefit (sometimes it seems as if politicians can't make any argument without invoking a False Dichotomy), as do special interests and corporations, many ivory tower intellectuals succumb to it's charm to make their case, and of course the media perpetuates their own False Dichotomies even while they pass along everyone else's. It drives me nuts. You can't hardly turn on the t.v. without havings some authority or media figure telling you of the dire consequences of choosing A over B, or black instead of white, or Crest instead of Colgate. We all know that almost nothing works that way, but we seem to accept and even perpetuate these False Dichotomies ourselves... even here frequently.
 
quote:
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Originally posted by Orwell
I don't see how this can be avoided when it comes to subjects we don't know much about! For instance, what are we supposed to do if the subject in question involves some obscure scientific reasoning? I usually tend to go for the scientific consensus view, which is to say that I believe it because most scientists believe it to be true. A good example of this is the entire global warming argument.
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Kerberos said:
I'll second that, people who know about the subject all believe A therefore is is most probably true is a perfectly valid argument.
Are you going to go with this when it comes to people who have PHD's in theology?

An appeal to authority may strengthen your position, but it doesn't mean it is free of fallacy.
 
What a fun thread. Plus I got a better link to a fallacy site than the one I'd bookmarked. Thanks to...um...somebody for that.

I'm with rtdjr....false dilemma or dichotomy or ignoring the middle. At least as far as how I define "pet peeve."

Lots of what people are adding but without names to them are simply strawmen and red herrings. They are born from my biggest pet peeve...just a simply bad grasp of logic. You can tell when people grasp logic, even if they don't use the right lingo. When I know I'm discussing something with someone who has no such grasp, I immediately wrap it up and move on. It just isn't worth the time. I will try to remind them of a fallacy they are committing so that perhaps they might be inspired to go look it up and learn something. Wishful thinking probably...
 
Giz said:
But (!) sometimes, in an imperfect world, you will have to choose the lesser of two (or more) evils... your best course of action (or inaction) while open to criticism may be better than the alternatives. For criticism to be constructive there has to be an implicit/explicit suggestion of how you could improve.

I don't buy that. Often this line of reasoning is used to pigeon-hole criticism and shut it off. Put another way, any criticism is not valid unless it comes with a solution. What? Either something is wrong or it isn't. Observing that something is broken doesn't mean I have to know how to fix it. I can clearly see if a wall clock has broken and I might have no idea how to fix it. My solution is: get an expert to fix it. I often see this rationale in conjuction with the False Dichotomy. Example: Death Penalty. I have a lot of problems with the way that it is administered. But the two schools of thought seem to be that you have to be either for or against the death penalty. You can't criticize either school of thought without being subjected to their false dichotomy AND being told that you haven't offered a solution, so go away.

A. You are either for the death penalty or against it. No room for maneuver here.

B. If you are against the death penalty, you are for letting murderers go.

C. If you are for the death penalty, you are for state sponsored murder.

Ummm, no. I can see that some people are just waaaaay too dangerous to have them continue to live on the remote chance that they somehow get loose again. I can also see that the death penalty is very unevenly applied to poor people and that a number of people have been sent to death row and had new technology exonerate them decades later. (If the process was any faster they'd already be dead!) And if I don't think we should use the death penalty as much, that doesn't mean I want to let murderers go. You can still convict them and lock them up for life, absent the stiffer punishment.

I can see that there is a clear problem and still not have very many useful suggestions. That doesn't make the fact of the problem any less valid!

I don't have to offer a fix to know there is a problem. I might not have the first clue or suggestion to fixing a problem with my car, but I can still recognize that there is a problem and take it to experts who can examine it. But what if the mechanic said, "Well, don't just bring me your problems unless you're going to offer contructive ideas about how to fix it... " Ummmmm, look at the engine and do a diagnosis? You're the expert here.

If our government and media were more responsible, as a whole, they would be finding better solutions for us. They're supposed to be the experts, right? They get the bicg bucks and have all the power to create commissions, order investigations and reports, etc. So, it shouldn't fall to Joe Average to both point at a problem and find ways to fix it.
 
rdtjr said:
Example: Death Penalty. I have a lot of problems with the way that it is administered. But the two schools of thought seem to be that you have to be either for or against the death penalty. You can't criticize either school of thought without being subjected to their false dichotomy AND being told that you haven't offered a solution, so go away.

A. You are either for the death penalty or against it. No room for maneuver here.

B. If you are against the death penalty, you are for letting murderers go.

C. If you are for the death penalty, you are for state sponsored murder.

Ummm, no. I can see that some people are just waaaaay too dangerous to have them continue to live on the remote chance that they somehow get loose again. I can also see that the death penalty is very unevenly applied to poor people and that a number of people have been sent to death row and had new technology exonerate them decades later. (If the process was any faster they'd already be dead!) And if I don't think we should use the death penalty as much, that doesn't mean I want to let murderers go. You can still convict them and lock them up for life, absent the stiffer punishment.
Your example fails here. You do offer an alternative -- life without parole. One might agree or disagree with that alternative, but if someone is denying that you've offered an alterative at all it is they who are failing logically, not you. If they criticize your fix because the possibility of escape essentially makes your idea equivalent to "letting murderers go" you can reasonably argue for more secure prisons or you can offer escape statistics for existing maximum facility prisons to demolish his argument. So regardless of the merits of the idea (which, to be frank, are often separate and apart from any "rules of debate"), you've met the burden set by those who insist that simply saying "no" without an alternative is not constructive.
 

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