What is wrong with what Steorn is doing?

[calebprime]

So – some have visited the public forum. I am a member of the SPDC (private – NDA needed) and it is much more orderly there, as we have more scientists etc. Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Finally, the mechanism has been explained – very simple, and I wrote a Fortran sim to convince myself of it. It actually works – as long as a stator magnet is not depleted, and it doesn’t look like it would be – test plots showing this to be the case have been presented by Steorn and some forum members have come close to reproducing the setup – one of them says he had an 8 hour run before something loosened up. Now none of this is substitute for the 22 Jury members and their report – but it’s pretty damn good.

Coming soon for the cognoscenti 7 of us were selected to test the tech themselves.. That activity will start in a few weeks time.

So – it’s all go: no sign of closing up shop after the London debacle.

I, for one, eagerly await the wonderful news.

 

[BillyJoe]

Yeah.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Oh My Dawg! The eight hour story predates the disaster-at-the-gallery! And it was all that was ever leaked out of the sooper sekret klub. Now there's a famous scientist on a video. Another video????

 

[Mojo]

Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Steorn's original contention appeared to be that they had to follow the course they did (hiring a PR firm, advertising in the Economist for "jurors" etc.) because while they had found scientists who confirmed that the device worked, none of them was prepared to go on the record and say so. As they put it on their website:

Those who were prepared to complete testing have all confirmed our claims; however none will publicly go on record.

In early 2006 Steorn decided to seek validation from the scientific community in a more public forum, and as a result have published the challenge in The Economist.

Now it seems that they do have scientists who are prepared to say it works, but it is Steorn who don't want this made public. Can you explain "the story around that" or is it covered by the NDA as well?

 

[hdeasy]

@Mojo: We were so concerned with the 1 named scientist that I can't recall queries as to why they were now forbidden and your implied inconsistency.

 

[strathmeyer]

Is Steorn going to quietly close up shop, grab what's left of the money, and disappear?

And does this answer Troll Chi's original question?

 

[Aepervius]

So – some have visited the public forum. I am a member of the SPDC (private – NDA needed) and it is much more orderly there, as we have more scientists etc. Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.

Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.

Finally, the mechanism has been explained – very simple, and I wrote a Fortran sim to convince myself of it. It actually works – as long as a stator magnet is not depleted, and it doesn’t look like it would be – test plots showing this to be the case have been presented by Steorn and some forum members have come close to reproducing the setup – one of them says he had an 8 hour run before something loosened up. Now none of this is substitute for the 22 Jury members and their report – but it’s pretty damn good.

Coming soon for the cognoscenti 7 of us were selected to test the tech themselves.. That activity will start in a few weeks time.

So – it’s all go: no sign of closing up shop after the London debacle.

Ha, Hdeasy, I see you made it to this forum.

Funny how you posted this new here and not on the official forum from Steorn. Funny also how your psot is also actually 100% devoid of information.
I can substitute "hdeasy said" to "sean said" and we are abck to sqaure one.

How about the following :
* name the skeptic which were "turned" and "convinced" , for example what about enginerd ? Then we can go together on the original forum and ask them what they think about a U-turn ? And we can also check if they were REALLY skeptic or jsut used the definition without the qualification.
* Show us your fortran source code. I am used to the simulation in fortran, this was my main job while I was working on quantum mechanic. Usually HP-Fortran on 4/8 processors. I know from experience that you can fall in a lot of pitfall. So ... how about showing us the source code ? And the model you used (equation / Schemas) ?
* how about naming this scientific/inventor so that we contact him independently ?

But let me guess... You won't be able to do any of this, right ?

 

[Snadert]

About the bearings....

There are duplicate threads on this topic going, and I related this theory that I stole from a guy over on the Steorn forum. (No one follows links around, so I'll repeat it.)

Sean said that the bearings were extremely sensitive because they got them from watch/clock makers. So it wasn't that they were shoddy Chinese parts as several Steornites have said, it was that their tolerance was so minute. The bearings in a watch or clock are designed to handle very sensitive and well-balanced mechanisms, and to create as little friction or drag as possible. This being why a grandfather clock can run for thirty days or more.
....

Watches normally have ruby bearings, due to the fact that steel on glass or glasslike substances causes almost no friction. I have some magnetic rotors running on a bearing ball on top of a (not so smooth) glass bowl and you'll be amazed how long these things run, and how little energy is used.

 

[Bobbotov]

The bearing excuse is so patently absurd. Steorn had four years to prepare for this demonstration and this is the excuse they give as to why it failed?

If these guys are really savvy engineers and could read the specifications of the bearings being used you would think that the issue over environmental tolerance would have come up in the normal testing cycles they had supposedly done. Stearn has alluded to doing extensive testing with a technology that is proven to work every time and yet when they show it for the first time in the world premiere all it shows is that they didn't do their homework. And people have faith in this company and believe their claims?

I pity the human race.

 

[Michael C]

Still no free energy from Steorn, but they seem to have money to spare: they're sponsoring the next exhibition at Kinetica, "In Flux": http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/2007/09/in-flux.html

 

[volatile]

Any updates from Dublin? Did they break the laws of physics yet?

 

[zooterkin]

There's an update here, an interview with Sean McCarthy (CEO of Steorn), but no real substance.

 

[volatile]

There's an update here, an interview with Sean McCarthy (CEO of Steorn), but no real substance.

[...]whether you consider that energy creation or conversion is a matter of semantics.

All this time, all these "engineers", and he still doesn't understand thermodynamics?!

 

[zooterkin]

All this time, all these "engineers", and he still doesn't understand thermodynamics?!

Well, I said no real substance, but of course, maybe I'm just an unbeliever. It is of course possible that they have discovered a new principle of physics, the full reply that you quote is:

FE Truth: "In your opinion does Orbo create or extract energy?"

Sean: It’s a question of views. I would say that, in the same way as there is a mass/energy equivalent there is also a form of time/energy equivalent and whether you consider that energy creation or conversion is a matter of semantics. The explanation behind Orbo is that ÄT can equal E as simple as that.

Time/energy equivalence, wow!

On the other hand, spot the evasion in the answer to this simple question:

FE Truth: How many patents do Steorn hold in relation to Orbo technology?

Sean: In the region of 15 – 20 applications

 

[BillyJoe]

On the other hand there is this seemingly reasonable reply:

The internet seems to give people the right to debate things religiously. When you talk about taking on a scientific establishment which is very much how we cast ourselves, we came out fighting so you could say we provoked a response but that having been said we are questioning a fundamental assumption of the world of physics and I think that the world of physics is religious in its attitude to these things and probably rightly so.

"Religious" is perhaps too strong a word though.

 

[CFLarsen]

Bears repeating:

Still no free energy from Steorn.

 

[Snadert]

Bears repeating:

Still no free energy from Steorn.

Though free publicity flows like a waterfall... Steorn just invented a free publicity machine..

 

[CFLarsen]

Time to return to the starting point:

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-09/092206bad.html#i6

It sounds like they advertised to get independent scientists (not biased skeptical organizations or personalities) to test their product.

T'ai Chi,

What do you think of the way Steorn has handled all this?

Would you describe it as "scientific"?

 

[Horatius]

FE Truth: How many patents do Steorn hold in relation to Orbo technology?

Sean: In the region of 15 – 20 applications

And yet, I still can't find any except the one to the "low energy magnetic actuator", which they've said isn't a part of their device.....Hmmmmmm......

 

[balrog666]

Have you had any licensing enquiries from interested companies since you went public in August 2006?

I missed this previously ... so, what group of idiots is holding the bag now, how much did they pay, and how much are they paying now just to keep the lights on and the PR/BS going?