What is with guns and paranoia?

[crimresearch]

Gun enthusiasts, especially the breed who hang around on the Internet fantasizing about someone messing with them, almost inviting an attack.

Plenty of law enforcement officers would like to see a licensing process, in addition to other controls.

Evading the question.

You referenced a specific set - 'gun people' and labelled the entire set as idiots and dangerous.

You failed to specify what makes someone a 'gun person'. You were asked for clarification. Are gun people' all people who have guns? Or is it simply a euphemism for 'gun nuts'?

Moving the goal posts to the fact that some police officers would be in favor of some restrictions (like not letting felons have guns), doesn't address your first assertion.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Gun enthusiasts, especially the breed who hang around on the Internet fantasizing about someone messing with them, almost inviting an attack.

Plenty of law enforcement officers would like to see a licensing process, in addition to other controls.

I have had my concealed carry permit for about a month now and still haven't carried a concealed gun anywhere.

 

[CORed]

One reason is because the paranoia is amplified and exploited by people who get political gain from the one issue voters.

I think financial gain is also part of the motivation. People who sell guns and ammo made a lot of money from the "Obama's going to take away our guns" hysteria.

 

[Ranb]

Gun enthusiasts, especially the breed who hang around on the Internet fantasizing about someone messing with them, almost inviting an attack.

So it is all gun enthusiasts then? But especially those others who fantasize? I am a gun enthusiast, do you group me in with those wackos?

Plenty of law enforcement officers would like to see a licensing process, in addition to other controls.

Can you be more specific about this licensing process or other controls that police officers want to see?

Would it impose a tax that is more than certain firearms are worth?
Would it require a background check by the feds?
Would it prohibit transfer of certain firearms by a dealer to anyone under 21 even though the owner only need be 18 to possess the firearm?
Would it define as a firearm certain objects that do not propel a projectile of any kind or emit any energy?
Would it require that the owner produce registration forms whenever demanded by the BATFE?
Would it prohibit the transfer of various types of registered firearms whose use by criminals is extremely rare?
Would it allow the local sheriff to impede authorization to own a firearm for any reason?
Would it require the individual maker/purchaser to be photographed/fingerprinted each time they apply to possess certain firearms?
Would it place lengthy (two to six months) delays on transferring possession of certain firearms to other licensees or purchasers?
Would it require that the licensee give up their fourth amendment rights to warrantless searches.
Would it impose penalties of 10 years/$10,000 for simple possession of certain unregistered firearms?

All of these things are in effect now. What else do you want?

Ranb

 

[Kestrel]

All of these things are in effect now. What else do you want?

A Federal requirement that whenever ownership of a handgun is transfered, a licensed firearms dealer does a background check and registers the firearm to it's new owner. Private sales would have to be finalized at a dealers shop. If this is not done, the prior owner remains responsible for whatever is done with the firearm.

 

[Ranb]

If this is not done, the prior owner remains responsible for whatever is done with the firearm.

So there should be no penalties for unauthorized transfers? Just that the previous owner remains responsible for the actions of the new owner?

Ranb

 

[Kestrel]

So there should be no penalties for unauthorized transfers? Just that the previous owner remains responsible for the actions of the new owner?

Ranb

Yes, there should be penalties in addition to responsibility.

 

[Cain]

Evading the question. [lol], you're a joke

You referenced a specific set - 'gun people' and labelled the entire set as idiots and dangerous.

You failed to specify what makes someone a 'gun person'. You were asked for clarification. Are gun people' all people who have guns? Or is it simply a euphemism for 'gun nuts'?

Moving the goal posts to the fact that some police officers would be in favor of some restrictions (like not letting felons have guns), doesn't address your first assertion.

Look at you hamming up another meaningless post. Are we on one of those days that ends with the letter 'y'?

Someone asked for clarification and I offered it. I further clarified by saying not all police officers are necessarily gun enthusiasts as they favor controls anathema to the NRA.

I've participated in many of these threads and encountered the subset of the population that is just oh-so-passionate about guns. And here's...
----------
Ranb

So it is all gun enthusiasts then? But especially those others who fantasize? I am a gun enthusiast, do you group me in with those wackos?

I've seen some of your posts, and as I recall, it's not uncommon to see you starting threads about firearms. That's enough of a turn-off, so I skip those threads, sort of like how my mouse scrolls past crime's posts.

Can you be more specific about this licensing process or other controls that police officers want to see?

Nice try. Police departments are locally run and composed of people with different views, but it's not uncommon for a department or group to endorse laws bitterly opposed by gun enthusiasts/fanatics.

Snipped Stuff.

All of these things are in effect now. What else do you want?

By licensing I meant something similar to a driver's license. Would you support such a law?

 

[Ranb]

I've seen some of your posts, and as I recall, it's not uncommon to see you starting threads about firearms. That's enough of a turn-off, so I skip those threads, sort of like how my mouse scrolls past crime's posts.

Evasion noted. A direct answer would be much more interesting.

Nice try. Police departments are locally run and composed of people with different views, but it's not uncommon for a department or group to endorse laws bitterly opposed by gun enthusiasts/fanatics.

More evasion. Why not just ignore my posts instead? Or better yet, not offer an opinon that you refuse to support with anything meaningful.

By licensing I meant something similar to a driver's license. Would you support such a law?

Would that be something like the scheme Illinois has? In that case no. Illinois has penalties for allowing the firearm owner ID card to expirewhile in possession of a firearm even though he or she has not done anything else wrong. Firearm possession by otherwise law abiding residents should not be a crime, but some people want to make it or keep it that way.

Ranb

 

[Cain]

Evasion noted. A direct answer would be much more interesting.

I'm sorry to report the truthful answer is a bit too mundane. I haven't bothered to read enough of your posts to reach a conclusion. If you want to shoehorn "not enough information" into "evasion," then that's a play that will help you with the duller posters who believe things by repetition.

More evasion. Why not just ignore my posts instead? Or better yet, not offer an opinon that you refuse to support with anything meaningful.

I almost always try to reply to someone who has replied to me.

Would that be something like the scheme Illinois has? In that case no. Illinois has penalties for allowing the firearm owner ID card to expirewhile in possession of a firearm even though he or she has not done anything else wrong. Firearm possession by otherwise law abiding residents should not be a crime, but some people want to make it or keep it that way.

Well, geez, Ranb, I don't think it's unreasonable to have penalties if you own a firearm and your license isn't up-to-date. That's kind of how it works, pal.

Let me revise the question. What kind of licensing process would you favor? Feel free to answer, "I am against licensing" because your reply above sounds a little, what's the word, starts with an 'e'...

 

[crimresearch]

Look at you hamming up another meaningless post. Are we on one of those days that ends with the letter 'y'?

Someone asked for clarification and I offered it. I further clarified by saying not all police officers are necessarily gun enthusiasts as they favor controls anathema to the NRA.

I've participated in many of these threads and encountered the subset of the population that is just oh-so-passionate about guns. And here's...
----------
Ranb



I've seen some of your posts, and as I recall, it's not uncommon to see you starting threads about firearms. That's enough of a turn-off, so I skip those threads, sort of like how my mouse scrolls past crime's posts.



Nice try. Police departments are locally run and composed of people with different views, but it's not uncommon for a department or group to endorse laws bitterly opposed by gun enthusiasts/fanatics.

Snipped Stuff.



By licensing I meant something similar to a driver's license. Would you support such a law?

There is no trace of any post by you here saying 'not all police officers are necessarily gun enthusiasts as they favor controls anathema to the NRA'.

 

[Halfcentaur]

So it is all gun enthusiasts then? But especially those others who fantasize? I am a gun enthusiast, do you group me in with those wackos?

I'd guess he's talking more about the people this fellow was referencing in his recent thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238658

I'm not sure where to post this; I figure since the meat of the matter in firearm related, along with the political backlashes, it would go here. Mods feel free to move it if needed.

So, I'm a gunowner, supporter of the Second Amendment, and bowhunter. Over the last few years my enjoyment of shooting and hunting has diminished considerably. Every firearm forum I visit, every gun store, outdoors store or archery pro shop I go into is populated with the same kinds of individual. The anti-Obama, born-in-Kenya, U.N./government-coming-to-get-our-guns paranoid Christian conservative that thinks Waco and Ruby Ridge were outrages (maybe so) and that Koresh and Weaver were heroes (not idiots and felons). They feel that any anti-gun news story is an immediate overreach by the Feds, a conspiracy, etc.

Obviously not all of them are like this, but the vast majority are. I have become ashamed of my fellow gun enthusiasts and outdoorsmen. They wallow in demagoguery fed to them by the NRA, paranoia sites such as PrisonPlanet, WND, etc. So disgruntled have I become that the hobbies I used to enjoy are being soured by the rhetoric. Almost all are conservative republicans, so any independant (or democrat/liberal) is instantly vilified.

Am I the only one? I come to this forum for the intelligent, rational conversation and insight.

What say you all?

 

[Travis]

Hey! I am NOT amusing!


Really, Travis? Can you use your powers of logic on yourself this one time and tell us just one of the fallacies presented here? I'll forgive you for this outburst if you do.

Are you saying no one ever buys guns for that purpose?

I know at least one guy who did. Thank goodness he eventually moved way away from me.

Or is it because it might be read as me implying all those that recreate with guns have pyscho-sexual issues? Well I wasn't trying to imply that.

So far he's been the most successful firearms seller in history.

For Travis, if interested, read this:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1326743

Imagining gun control in America, the remainder problem.

Short version - total across the board firearms ban, their would still remain a 400 year supply of firearms in circulation.

The CA gov is trying to keep as many guns out of the state as possible it seems. It appears they do not base their gun control scheme or assault weapons list on what is causing the problems. Some of the last sporting rifles added to the list had zero association with violent crime in the state. The law did nothing to prevent criminal use.

Within a few years sportsman got around the ban by making slight changes to the cartridge design and giving it a new name; 50 DTC. Thank a frenchman for that idea. One of the nicer things to come out of France since the Statue of Liberty.

Ranb

Precisely. Gun control laws don't work any better than our laws against drugs. Which is why those of us that wouldn't mind guns being banned don't support such laws. We know it would never work.

And this is something that gun haters have known for sometime.

 

[Cain]

There is no trace of any post by you here [this thread?] saying 'not all police officers are necessarily gun enthusiasts as they favor controls anathema to the NRA'.

Because gun enthusiasts enthusiastically support a licensing process, in addition to other regulations. They're well-known for it; NRA lobbies for those controls all the time.

 

[crimresearch]

Because gun enthusiasts enthusiastically support a licensing process, in addition to other regulations. They're well-known for it; NRA lobbies for those controls all the time.

I'll take your earlier word that your post was meaningless.

 

[Ranb]

Gun control laws don't work any better than our laws against drugs. Which is why those of us that wouldn't mind guns being banned don't support such laws.

Did you vote for the legislators and the governor that supported/signed AB50?

We know it would never work.

The people that vote in these types of laws know they have little to do with protecting people and much more to do with simply making guns legally unavailable to residents in their state.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

Because gun enthusiasts enthusiastically support a licensing process, in addition to other regulations. They're well-known for it; NRA lobbies for those controls all the time.

Have any names or evidence to support this claim? I am not aware of any current popular or NRA support for a gun licensing scheme. While the NRA supported early gun control schemes like the NFA and more recently CCW, I have never read about any support for a gun owner license law like IL has.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

Well, geez, Ranb, I don't think it's unreasonable to have penalties if you own a firearm and your license isn't up-to-date. That's kind of how it works, pal.

Let me revise the question. What kind of licensing process would you favor? Feel free to answer, "I am against licensing" because your reply above sounds a little, what's the word, starts with an 'e'...

I think some victimless crimes are unreasonable, failing to renew a gun license or being denied a renewal should not be one of them.

I would probably not oppose a licensing scheme that does not put a heavy burden on the owner, requires issue and renewal to anyone who can own a gun and does not provide penalties simply for failure to renew or possess the license.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

I'd guess he's talking more about the people this fellow was referencing in his recent thread..........

Possible, but hard to be sure. Cain did after all claim in part,

".....That's enough of a turn-off, so I skip those threads, sort of like how my mouse scrolls past crime's posts."

so it is hard to figure out what he is trying to get across sometimes.

 

[Bikewer]

If the goal of the various gun-control laws is to keep weapons out of the hands of violent criminals, clearly they are ineffective.
For as long as I can remember, it was nearly impossible for a citizen to legally own a handgun in either New York or Chicago.
Yet police took thousands of firearms "off the street" on a yearly basis in both these cities, and though New York has calmed considerably Chicago is still one of the most-murderous cities on Earth.
Criminals do not obtian firearms by purchasing them legally from licenced dealers. They usually obtain weapons that have been stolen in burglaries or obtained from black-market sources. With many millions of firearms available, there is no shortage of supply.

We would like to see that say, a convicted felon can't walk into a store and buy a new pistol, but likely such persons would be unlikely to do so anyway... If you intend the weapon for criminal purposes you don't want it to be nice and easily traceable.

We would like to see that firearms are not purchased by mentally-ill persons, but designing a system that would prevent this has serious problems. Unless one has been committed by court action, there is no record of the fact that one has seen a psychiatrist, say, with suicidal or homicidal ideation.
Indeed, psychiatrists and other medical professionals are under extreme strictures to avoid reporting such things to the "authorities". Doctor-patient relationships...Federally mandated patient confidentiality...
As well, people "go bad". An individual who purchases a handgun may be a sterling fellow with no record whatever and all.... And two years later, suffering from the pressures of his job and an impencing divorce and stacks of bills...May decide to "go postal".
No way to prevent such a thing...