What is with guns and paranoia?
- Thread starter Travis
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I don't think she should.
ETA: She didn't take mine away because I was responsible with it.
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crimresearch
Alumbrado
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Appeal to authority fallacy noted and rejected. What you've posted here stands on its own merits, or lack thereof.
What you posted about the law is factually incorrect, as proven by my links. You calling those links 'vomiting irrelevant nonsense' along with the rest of the obfuscation, is neither correct nor useful.
You don't get to present your unsupported opinions as facts here without being called on it, and your denier tactics are unpersuasive.
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Cain
Straussian
This is a rather nice example of the equivocation fallacy. While that's certainly one interpretation of "personal use" it's completely at adds with intentions of my example, which were rather unmistakable after an (unnecessary) clarification). Crash and burn, indeed.
Here's yet another fallacy you do not understand. I am an authority on what I believe. I am the author of my posts, and I was arguing your contention that I am anti-Fourteenth Amendment is at odds with recorded statements, as evidenced (for example) by how I teach. The topic does not come up on these forums very often, but if it had (and I remembered), I could have just as easily cited one of my earlier posts.
And here's one...
http://www.internationalskeptics.co...p=5862765&highlight=incorporation#post5862765
But please, feel free to continue to tell me what I believe.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
Cain:
And even in the case of Heller, a half-dozen (or so) other people were recruited to challenge the the D.C. ban, but I don't think you're drawing the right conclusion. As you go on to say, you've had "no shortage of willing plantiffs." The gun rights lobby could not get a win because courts have been hostile to their views over the years. There's been a significant and organized decades long push back, which has influenced scholarship, judges and the courts. Like I said, even famed Constitutional expert Laurence Tribe flipped to the individual rights view.
In Heller, the plantiff list was shortened by lack of standing - individuals who wished to possess a firearm but had not in fact gone through the application process and had been rejected.
This is a whole new environment for firearms rights challenges, especially in California.
The Calguns Foundation
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
Was formed because of the consistent failure of California LEA's to follow actual state law. The foundation has documented, and has successfully defended individuals charged with firearms possession related violations where no such violation has taken place. I can't empasize that enough - in certain jurisdictions, individuals transporting legal firearms in complete compliance with California law have been arrested and charged with crimes where no violation existed. Individuals have been deprived of their legal property, arrested and prosecuted when they had in fact - and in some cases, have later been found by a court to be factualy innocent - of committing any crime.
Before the foundation was formed, there was this case:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Harrot-v-County_of_Kings.pdf
In the wake of this decision, individuals later involved with the formation of the foundation took the fight against backdoor law making by the bureau of firearms to the state Office of Administrative Law, and in almost every case won injunctions against enforcement of "laws" concocted by BoF staff and administrators where state law allows no such "lawmaking" at all - only the State Legislature can create statutory law in California.
All of this and Heller and Mcdonald, and next at bat Staples has brought California gun owners to the point that we are winning at just about every turn - several LE agencies have ackowledged substandard training wrt firearms identification and related statutes, and other LEA's have led the way in officer education in identifying legal firearms and legal activites related to firearms possession.
The foundation has attempted to engage two seperate counties wrt confiscation of legal firearms and the refusual by those two agencies to release legal firearms to the legal owner, even in cases where the state BoF issues a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release) order, and as a result those two agencies are now in litagation (they will lose, no question, but it's only taxpayer money...)
Many counties, starting with Sacramento county, have been forced to revamp their concealed carry permit policy as a result of CGF litigation, going to a shall-issue model in every sense but the name.
The point I really want to make here wrt plantiffs and standing and clean hands - in the Sac. CCL suit, we had two plantiffs - one a retired LEO that wouldn't qualify for a carry permit (under the old scheme) because of length of residency, the other being a Lesbian that happened to be a victim of a gay bashing assault, who also happens to be a certified firearms instructor and combat pistol shooter- she wasn't issued a permit because...well, she must have been asking for it ...
This is the future in California, and it's the future in any jurisdiction that generally restricts individuals from possessing firearms.
It won't be too long before there's a good challenge to the Sullivan law in NYC, and somebody is going to have to explain why a decorated disabled combat veteran can't be issued a home permit for a handgun, but Howard Stern can.
And even in the case of Heller, a half-dozen (or so) other people were recruited to challenge the the D.C. ban, but I don't think you're drawing the right conclusion. As you go on to say, you've had "no shortage of willing plantiffs." The gun rights lobby could not get a win because courts have been hostile to their views over the years. There's been a significant and organized decades long push back, which has influenced scholarship, judges and the courts. Like I said, even famed Constitutional expert Laurence Tribe flipped to the individual rights view.
In Heller, the plantiff list was shortened by lack of standing - individuals who wished to possess a firearm but had not in fact gone through the application process and had been rejected.
This is a whole new environment for firearms rights challenges, especially in California.
The Calguns Foundation
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
Was formed because of the consistent failure of California LEA's to follow actual state law. The foundation has documented, and has successfully defended individuals charged with firearms possession related violations where no such violation has taken place. I can't empasize that enough - in certain jurisdictions, individuals transporting legal firearms in complete compliance with California law have been arrested and charged with crimes where no violation existed. Individuals have been deprived of their legal property, arrested and prosecuted when they had in fact - and in some cases, have later been found by a court to be factualy innocent - of committing any crime.
Before the foundation was formed, there was this case:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Harrot-v-County_of_Kings.pdf
In the wake of this decision, individuals later involved with the formation of the foundation took the fight against backdoor law making by the bureau of firearms to the state Office of Administrative Law, and in almost every case won injunctions against enforcement of "laws" concocted by BoF staff and administrators where state law allows no such "lawmaking" at all - only the State Legislature can create statutory law in California.
All of this and Heller and Mcdonald, and next at bat Staples has brought California gun owners to the point that we are winning at just about every turn - several LE agencies have ackowledged substandard training wrt firearms identification and related statutes, and other LEA's have led the way in officer education in identifying legal firearms and legal activites related to firearms possession.
The foundation has attempted to engage two seperate counties wrt confiscation of legal firearms and the refusual by those two agencies to release legal firearms to the legal owner, even in cases where the state BoF issues a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release) order, and as a result those two agencies are now in litagation (they will lose, no question, but it's only taxpayer money...)
Many counties, starting with Sacramento county, have been forced to revamp their concealed carry permit policy as a result of CGF litigation, going to a shall-issue model in every sense but the name.
The point I really want to make here wrt plantiffs and standing and clean hands - in the Sac. CCL suit, we had two plantiffs - one a retired LEO that wouldn't qualify for a carry permit (under the old scheme) because of length of residency, the other being a Lesbian that happened to be a victim of a gay bashing assault, who also happens to be a certified firearms instructor and combat pistol shooter- she wasn't issued a permit because...well, she must have been asking for it ...
This is the future in California, and it's the future in any jurisdiction that generally restricts individuals from possessing firearms.
It won't be too long before there's a good challenge to the Sullivan law in NYC, and somebody is going to have to explain why a decorated disabled combat veteran can't be issued a home permit for a handgun, but Howard Stern can.
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Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
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Gee, I thought I was at Comic-Con, with all of the caricatures I've seen in this thread.
Good thing I wasn't, might have been hit by a car.
Good thing I wasn't, might have been hit by a car.
The Dark Lord
Unregistered
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Why I am not a member of the NRA.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-29-2011/wayne-s-world
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-29-2011/wayne-s-world
crimresearch
Alumbrado
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What you seem to believe, is that you can't be held accountable for your actual words...
...
But that you can fabricate endless things other people never said.
And of course, you are right.. on the internet, you can ignore anything.
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BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
If I could get the thing to run, I might agree with you - the ad ran fine, wayne's world, not so much.
The Dark Lord
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It was Wayne LaPierre going off about a vast Obama conspiracy that has him not taking guns his first term as to lull us into a false sense of security so he can take them his second term. And John Stewart making fun of him.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
He begs for money like the most craven of xtian preachers.
PN - the foundation I'm involved with isn't associated with the N.R.A.
Other than supporting the Second, we have entirely different approaches due to the legislative environment in California - lobbying is almost useless - and the N.R.A. doesn't really pay much attention to California.