What if - Al Gore had won the 2000 election?

[Kestrel]

Where was all this public appreciation for what AlGore did to "initiate the creation of the internet' before he made this self-serving pronouncement in 1999? Where was Wolf Blitzer's ******** meter when he let AlGore's claim go completely unchallenged? Well, Ole Wolf was more concerned with keeping Bush 43 out of the White House than throwing cold water on AlGore's fantasies.

How about a New York Times article from 1992?

On another front, Senator Gore for years pushed hard for a national high-speed computer network that could link computers in Government, universities, industry and libraries. Last December his High-Performance Computing Act, which seeks to spend $2.9 billion over five years, was signed into law. Mr. Gore calls the network a "information superhighway" meant to be a catalyst to cultural and industrial progress.

 

[Travis]

People forget that it used to be the Liberals that advocated for invading Iraq and that I was with them back then. The Clinton administration was actively planning to invade Iraq and Al Gore was the driving force behind that. It was only sidelined when Republicans decided that fellatio in the White House was the most important issue in history and the Clinton administration ended up distracted with that instead.

So a Gore presidency would almost certainly have seen us going into Iraq. It probably would have been handled in a much more competent manner though and wouldn't have been about nebulous WMD's and would have been about liberating oppressed people.

 

[gdnp]

People forget that it used to be the Liberals that advocated for invading Iraq and that I was with them back then. The Clinton administration was actively planning to invade Iraq and Al Gore was the driving force behind that. It was only sidelined when Republicans decided that fellatio in the White House was the most important issue in history and the Clinton administration ended up distracted with that instead.

So a Gore presidency would almost certainly have seen us going into Iraq. It probably would have been handled in a much more competent manner though and wouldn't have been about nebulous WMD's and would have been about liberating oppressed people.

I disagree. There are plenty of countries with oppressed people that we are not liberating, and have no intention of liberating. The invasion of Iraq was based primarily on WMDs and Saddam's spotty compliance with weapons inspections. Before the invasion, however, he began to comply. The weapons inspectors had pretty much free access to the country, including Saddam's presidential palaces. They found nothing, and requested more time to complete their work. Bush decided it was too late, that the preparations were already in place, and that he was going to invade anyway. Gore, I hope, would have pulled back and let the inspections continue. Saddam would have been effectively contained without unleashing the sectarian violence that cost thousands of American lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, displacements, etc.

 

[Cicero]

I disagree. There are plenty of countries with oppressed people that we are not liberating, and have no intention of liberating. The invasion of Iraq was based primarily on WMDs and Saddam's spotty compliance with weapons inspections. Before the invasion, however, he began to comply. The weapons inspectors had pretty much free access to the country, including Saddam's presidential palaces. They found nothing, and requested more time to complete their work. Bush decided it was too late, that the preparations were already in place, and that he was going to invade anyway. Gore, I hope, would have pulled back and let the inspections continue. Saddam would have been effectively contained without unleashing the sectarian violence that cost thousands of American lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, displacements, etc.

Except Saddam was claiming he did indeed have WOMD.

"And in June 2000 you gave a speech in where you said Iraq would not disarm until others in the region did. A rifle for a rifle, a stick for a stick, a stone for a stone,'" Piro recalls.

That June 2000 speech was about weapons of mass destruction. In talking casually about that speech, Saddam began to tell the story of his weapons. It was a breakthrough that had taken five months.

"Oh, you couldn't imagine the excitement that I was feeling at that point," Piro remembers.

"And what did he tell you about how his weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed?" Pelley asks.

"He told me that most of the WMD had been destroyed by the U.N. inspectors in the '90s. And those that hadn't been destroyed by the inspectors were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq," Piro says.

"So why keep the secret? Why put your nation at risk, why put your own life at risk to maintain this charade?" Pelley asks.

"It was very important for him to project that because that was what kept him, in his mind, in power. That capability kept the Iranians away. It kept them from reinvading Iraq," Piro says."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page4.shtml

 

[Gangularis]

Except Saddam was claiming he did indeed have WOMD.

"And in June 2000 you gave a speech in where you said Iraq would not disarm until others in the region did. A rifle for a rifle, a stick for a stick, a stone for a stone,'" Piro recalls.

That June 2000 speech was about weapons of mass destruction. In talking casually about that speech, Saddam began to tell the story of his weapons. It was a breakthrough that had taken five months.

"Oh, you couldn't imagine the excitement that I was feeling at that point," Piro remembers.

"And what did he tell you about how his weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed?" Pelley asks.

"He told me that most of the WMD had been destroyed by the U.N. inspectors in the '90s. And those that hadn't been destroyed by the inspectors were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq," Piro says.

"So why keep the secret? Why put your nation at risk, why put your own life at risk to maintain this charade?" Pelley asks.

"It was very important for him to project that because that was what kept him, in his mind, in power. That capability kept the Iranians away. It kept them from reinvading Iraq," Piro says."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494_page4.shtml

He wasn't claiming he had WMDs when the inspections were going on. He repeatedly went back on this claim, when the lie was not needed.

 

[Cicero]

He wasn't claiming he had WMDs when the inspections were going on. He repeatedly went back on this claim, when the lie was not needed.

According to Piro, Saddam did no such thing.

"As the U.S. marched toward war and we began massing troops on his border, why didn't he stop it then? And say, 'Look, I have no weapons of mass destruction.' I mean, how could he have wanted his country to be invaded?" Pelley asks.

"He didn't. But he told me he initially miscalculated President Bush. And President Bush's intentions. He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998 under Operation Desert Fox. Which was a four-day aerial attack. So you expected that initially," Piro says.

Piro says Saddam expected some kind of an air campaign and that he could he survive that. "He survived that once. And then he was willing to accept that type of attack. That type of damage," he says.

"Saddam didn't believe that the United States would invade," Pelley remarks.

"Not initially, no," Piro says.

"Once it was clear to him that there was going to be an invasion of the country. I mean, did he actually believe that his armies could win?" Pelley asks.

"No," Piro says. "What he had asked of his military leaders and senior government officials was to give him two weeks. And at that point it would go into what he called the secret war."

 

[gdnp]

How could anyone doubt AlGore's expertise with technology ?

"At one recent White House event, Gore introduced Cisco Systems CEO John Chambers, who he had met with privately earlier that day.

Gore told the audience how much he valued Chambers and one of the products Cisco produced. But he mispronounced "routers" as root-ers."

Hmm...an event noted on wired.com, and thus disseminated, but reported no where else. Now I consider myself relatively tech savvy. I networked my home computers back in 1999, first with a hub, then a switch. I don't think I got my first router until 2002 or 2003. When did Al Gore make this (possibly apocryphal) speech? Some time before March 1999 when it was first reported. Tell me, did you know what a router was a decade (or more) ago, and how to pronounce it?

In any event, isn't it amazing that a man with an undergraduate degree in Government, who did graduate work in divinity school and law school before entering politics, with no training at all in computer science, was still perspicacious enough to recognize the promise and promote the growth of the internet at a time when few outside of academia or defense had heard of it? And if that weren't enough, he then had the insight and vision to realize the threat of global warming and prepare a lecture about it so compelling that a documentary about it won an Academy award, and his audio version of the associated book won him a Grammy Award. All without any training in climatology. Clearly, one of the geniuses of our time.

 

[shuize]

What would have happened if Al Gore had won in 2000?

Duh. Sweetness and light.

 

[shuize]

People forget that it used to be the Liberals that advocated for invading Iraq and that I was with them back then. The Clinton administration was actively planning to invade Iraq and Al Gore was the driving force behind that. It was only sidelined when Republicans decided that fellatio in the White House was the most important issue in history and the Clinton administration ended up distracted with that instead.

Thanks for bring that up. I do remember the tough talk by Clinton and others back then. As you note, however, many seem to have forgotten.

 

[Prometheus]

Thanks for bring that up. I do remember the tough talk by Clinton and others back then. As you note, however, many seem to have forgotten.

Thing is, back then it was the right thing to do--to go in and clean up Bush Sr.'s unfinished business. When Baby Bush did it, he left his own unfinished business in Afghanistan only to start something else he'd never finish. I can't wait to see the mess some poor Democrat's gonna have to clean up if the Bush Twins ever go into politics...

 

[Cicero]

Hmm...an event noted on wired.com, and thus disseminated, but reported no where else. Now I consider myself relatively tech savvy. I networked my home computers back in 1999, first with a hub, then a switch. I don't think I got my first router until 2002 or 2003. When did Al Gore make this (possibly apocryphal) speech? Some time before March 1999 when it was first reported. Tell me, did you know what a router was a decade (or more) ago, and how to pronounce it?

In any event, isn't it amazing that a man with an undergraduate degree in Government, who did graduate work in divinity school and law school before entering politics, with no training at all in computer science, was still perspicacious enough to recognize the promise and promote the growth of the internet at a time when few outside of academia or defense had heard of it? And if that weren't enough, he then had the insight and vision to realize the threat of global warming and prepare a lecture about it so compelling that a documentary about it won an Academy award, and his audio version of the associated book won him a Grammy Award. All without any training in climatology. Clearly, one of the geniuses of our time.

Legacy of a "genius."

1) The MMGW's cringe whenever anyone brings up AlGore and his sci-fi flick.

2) During a campaign trip to Pennsylvania, he told an audience there that he has trouble turning on a computer, let alone using one.

3) In the spring of last year, AlGore called the executive editor of the Washington Post to tell him there was an error in the paper - there was an upside down picture of the earth. But the Earth in the Balance author was mistaken. There is no "up" or "down" in space, only on flat maps that orient the earth north and south.

4) In a Milwaukee speech to the Institute of World Affairs, AlGore figured the national motto needed the AlGore treatment, "We can build a collective civic space large enough for all our separate identities, that we can be e pluribus unum - out of one, many."

How about, "out of many, one."

5) Speaking at a D.C., Gore praised the Chicago Bulls, saying, "I tell you that Michael Jackson is unbelievable, isn't he. He's just unbelievable."

6) In 1992, while criticizing George Bush, AlGore stated, "A zebra does not change its spots."

7) Visiting Minneapolis, Minn. last fall to raise money for the local Democrats, Gore couldn't figure out what state he was in. Praising the Democratic candidates, he said, "They will be the education team that Missouri needs to move into the 21st century."

8) At a speech given around Father's Day in D.C., AlGore continued with his penchant for Goring another saying. He said, "It's a wise father who knows his child."

Try, "It's a wise child who knows its father."

9) Criticizing Oliver North in 1994, AlGore stated that Mr. North was counting on political contributions from "the extra-chromosome right wing." This was an extremely insensitive remark, making fun of people with Down's Syndrome. Apologizing for the rude remark later in a letter, Gore wrote that he had "learned an important lession [sic]."

10) At a conference on homelessness, Gore incorrectly related, "Speaking from my own religious tradition in this Christmas season, 2,000 years ago a homeless woman gave birth to a homeless child in a manger because the inn was full." Mary was not a homeless person.

11) In 1996, a couple from Texas wrote a letter to Gore pleading for help with their public transportation system Amtrak, called the Texas Eagle. The Eagle was about to eliminate several of its lines because of financial problems. Gore wrote them back a letter instructing them on what they should do regarding the plight of an animal on the verge of extinction, and told them how much he cared about the Texas Eagle.

 

[gdnp]

Legacy of a "genius."

1) The MMGW's cringe whenever anyone brings up AlGore and his sci-fi flick.

2) During a campaign trip to Pennsylvania, he told an audience there that he has trouble turning on a computer, let alone using one.

3) In the spring of last year, AlGore called the executive editor of the Washington Post to tell him there was an error in the paper - there was an upside down picture of the earth. But the Earth in the Balance author was mistaken. There is no "up" or "down" in space, only on flat maps that orient the earth north and south.

4) In a Milwaukee speech to the Institute of World Affairs, AlGore figured the national motto needed the AlGore treatment, "We can build a collective civic space large enough for all our separate identities, that we can be e pluribus unum - out of one, many."

How about, "out of many, one."

5) Speaking at a D.C., Gore praised the Chicago Bulls, saying, "I tell you that Michael Jackson is unbelievable, isn't he. He's just unbelievable."

6) In 1992, while criticizing George Bush, AlGore stated, "A zebra does not change its spots."

7) Visiting Minneapolis, Minn. last fall to raise money for the local Democrats, Gore couldn't figure out what state he was in. Praising the Democratic candidates, he said, "They will be the education team that Missouri needs to move into the 21st century."

8) At a speech given around Father's Day in D.C., AlGore continued with his penchant for Goring another saying. He said, "It's a wise father who knows his child."

Try, "It's a wise child who knows its father."

9) Criticizing Oliver North in 1994, AlGore stated that Mr. North was counting on political contributions from "the extra-chromosome right wing." This was an extremely insensitive remark, making fun of people with Down's Syndrome. Apologizing for the rude remark later in a letter, Gore wrote that he had "learned an important lession [sic]."

10) At a conference on homelessness, Gore incorrectly related, "Speaking from my own religious tradition in this Christmas season, 2,000 years ago a homeless woman gave birth to a homeless child in a manger because the inn was full." Mary was not a homeless person.

11) In 1996, a couple from Texas wrote a letter to Gore pleading for help with their public transportation system Amtrak, called the Texas Eagle. The Eagle was about to eliminate several of its lines because of financial problems. Gore wrote them back a letter instructing them on what they should do regarding the plight of an animal on the verge of extinction, and told them how much he cared about the Texas Eagle.

Congratulations. You have learned to cut and paste. Have you been taking lessons from BAC? you may wish to ask him how to insert a link from the site you plagiarized. Perhaps he can also teach you how to use the quote feature. For someone so critical of Gore's computer skills, one would think you would have at least mastered the basics.

 

[Cicero]

Congratulations. You have learned to cut and paste. Have you been taking lessons from BAC? you may wish to ask him how to insert a link from the site you plagiarized. Perhaps he can also teach you how to use the quote feature. For someone so critical of Gore's computer skills, one would think you would have at least mastered the basics.

Plagiarized? These are facts. Do I have to put the sun rises in the East and sets in the West in quotes? But if you are already familiar with these facts, why have you not found a new hero to worship? Or do you find hypocrisy irresistibly heroic?

"Tell me, did you know what a router was a decade (or more) ago, and how to pronounce it? "

gdnp

BTW: How did you pronounce "router" before 1999? Or have you never heard of the woodworking cutting tool? The mind boggles.

 

[gdnp]

Plagiarized? These are facts. Do I have to put the sun rises in the East and sets in the West in quotes?

Facts? These are anecdotes. As I have already stated, the claim that Al Gore pronounced "router" as "rooter" is based, as far as I can tell, on a single report from Wired.com. It was not, to my knowledge, confirmed by any other news source, just picked up on by a bunch of right-wing bloggers. Repeating a rumor does not make it true.

But if you are already familiar with these facts, why have you not found a new hero to worship? Or do you find hypocrisy irresistibly heroic?

Falacy of the excluded middle. I simply find these criticisms trivial and juvenile.

BTW: How did you pronounce "router" before 1999? Or have you never heard of the woodworking cutting tool? The mind boggles.

I pronounced it "router". Then again, I live near the city of Bogata, NJ. It's pronounced Ba-GO-ta. Don't ask me why. I hear there is a city in Illinois spelled Cairo, pronounced Kay-row. The word "read" can be pronounced "reed" or "red". It is a curiosity of language called "heteronyms". There is also the issue of regional accents. My wife comes from Illinois and pronounces "roof" as "rough". Gore, I hear, is a southerner. Our immediate past president, also a southerner, seemed to think the word "nuclear" was pronounced "nucular".

As Dr. A pointed out, the English pronounce "router" as "rooter". Is it possible there was an engineer of English birth in on the discussion of Cisco technology, and this is where Gore picked up that particular pronunciation? Or, perhaps, he simply misspoke. It does happen, you know. Or maybe he doesn't know a router from roto-rooter, or a hawk from a handsaw. If that is the case, then all the more credit to him for recognizing the importance of the "information superhighway" despite the lack of technological savvy.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Or have you never heard of the woodworking cutting tool? The mind boggles.

The woodworking tool routs things. The computer gizmo routes things.

 

[davefoc]

The woodworking tool routs things. The computer gizmo routes things.

Wow, didn't expect this discussion of a particularly trivial and pointless issue to actually lead to useful information. I own both kinds of routers but one of them routs and the other routes. And based on some independent research it looks like one does routing and the other does routeing.

But I notice my spell checker isn't all that enthused about routeing.

 

[Brainster]

One of my favorite "what ifs" was covered by National Lampoon in the 1970s: What if JFK had not been assassinated? There were lots of amusing changes; for example, Kennedy forced the major leagues to expand by about 100 ballclubs and allowed the new teams to draft from every club except the Washington Senators, with the result that that hapless franchise began winning every World Series. I don't remember all the other bits that they had in it, but the grand finale was a mock front page of the New York Times in this alternate 1972, which looked depressingly similar to the real 1972 front page, just with different names and faces on the stories.

 

[Father Dagon]

Doubtful. Firstly Gore didn't voice much in the way of objections to Clinton's policy of lobbing explosive things at the place whenever Saddam did something annoying. Secondly Bush had to invest a very large amount of time and political capital in makeing the war happen. Since the democractic base isn't exactly suportive of war in general Gore would likely have had to put in even more time and effort something I really can't see him doing.

Yes, but the war against Iraq was only the second war Bush began. Was there really any resistance against the war on the talibans?

And Clintons "surgical" missile strikes against Sudan might be typical of democrats not wanting to get anyones hands dirty. But 9-11 did change everything. No sane person believed in August 2001 that Bush would've been re-elected.

So a war against Iraq under a democrat president could've gone better. Easier to get international support, as the democrats is the good guys etc etc.

 

[Brainster]

Before the invasion, however, he began to comply. The weapons inspectors had pretty much free access to the country, including Saddam's presidential palaces. They found nothing, and requested more time to complete their work. Bush decided it was too late, that the preparations were already in place, and that he was going to invade anyway. Gore, I hope, would have pulled back and let the inspections continue. Saddam would have been effectively contained without unleashing the sectarian violence that cost thousands of American lives and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, displacements, etc.

You assume that Gore would have been as credible as Bush to Saddam in terms of demanding compliance and threatening invasion, so that Saddam would have given the weapons inspectors the same access to the country.

 

[Cicero]

"Are fat people harming the environment?"
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140715

IF fat people harmed the environment would AlGore, the pied piper of MMGW, be calorically challenged?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2qV81vSZDQ