What do Mormons believe?

[RussDill]

Don't forget the belief that after the ascention, jesus visited the americas.

Mormons are very particular about their temple. You can't step foot in most parts if you aren't a practicing mormon. Something about needing to replace all the carpet because you are unclean, it really makes mormon weddings difficult (along with the lack of alchohol and dancing at the reception).

IIRC, all Mormons must complete I mission, I forget if it's two years, or one year.

Also, with Mormonism, you are supposed to give a certain, preset percentage of your income to the church, I think it might be 10%.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Don't forget the belief that after the ascention, jesus visited the americas.

Yes that's true. It was actually one of the big selling points of the religion for me, that it was the only religion I had ever encounterd that even addressed the idea that the America's existed and had inhabitants well before the time of Christ. Most religions I had encountered up to that point said that any Indians who had the misfortune to be born before Christian missionaries arrived from Europe to convert them were going to roast in hell, too bad so sad. That idea alone always made the Mormon version of God seem considerably less depraved than that of other religions.

Mormons are very particular about their temple. You can't step foot in most parts if you aren't a practicing mormon. Something about needing to replace all the carpet because you are unclean, it really makes mormon weddings difficult (along with the lack of alchohol and dancing at the reception).

And even a Mormon has to get a temple recomend from his Bishop. I have never heard the thing about the carpets though. Also, I never heard it put as 'uncleanness' as the reason for the exclusivity of certain areas. I never really heard a reason at all.

IIRC, all Mormons must complete I mission, I forget if it's two years, or one year.

One year. ANd retired people and others who can afford the time often choose to go on them too.

Also, with Mormonism, you are supposed to give a certain, preset percentage of your income to the church, I think it might be 10%. [/B]

10% But I think 'Fast Sundays' are a more interesting customs. One Sunday a month they are required to fast and give the food they would have eaten (or more commonly in modern times the money they would have spent on food that day) to the poor. It was one of the customs I admired.

 

[RandFan]

Don't forget the belief that after the ascention, jesus visited the americas.

Yes, so true. It is talked about like "well duh, god is the god of the Americas as well as the Middle East." Which raises the question why did got not go to China, Tibet, Ukraine, India, etc.

Mormons are very particular about their temple. You can't step foot in most parts if you aren't a practicing Mormon. Something about needing to replace all the carpet because you are unclean...

Yes and No. The temple is like the area around the burning bush. You know, the one where Moses was told to take of his sandals because it was holy ground. I guess god didn't want him to get any dirt on the...er...well, dirt.

The temple is "holy" or "sacred". You must be of pure heart and mind and a member in good standing. My father worked at the Church headquarters much of his adult life. I can tell you that temples around the world are subject to inspections by City, state and County workers depending on the locale. For instance most temples must have a fire inspection. The people who perform these inspections are not always members and even if they are they are not always members in good standing. They visit at least annually. The temple is closed the day of the inspection but no carpet is ever replaced as a result of the inspection.

I have heard stories about replacing carpet but they are part of the many bits of eroneous data swirling about the church.

Some bits of information the church does not actively try and dispel. Like Blood Doctrine, Satan ruling the seas, etc.

...it really makes Mormon weddings difficult (along with the lack of alchohol...

Good point.

...and dancing at the reception).

I have been to a lot of Mormon receptions. They are never held in the temple and there is always dancing.

IIRC, all Mormons must complete I mission, I forget if it's two years, or one year.

I served two years of my life in Orange County California. While there the length of time was shortened to 18 months. I opted to stay the whole two years. It is now back to two years.

Also, with Mormonism, you are supposed to give a certain, preset percentage of your income to the church, I think it might be 10%.

True.

 

[RussDill]

oh, also I heard something about storing enough food/water for two weeks to prepare for some future event, don't remember much about this one though.

And don't forget, the commandment to have lots of hot daughters.

 

[RandFan]

And don't forget, the commandment to have lots of hot daughters.

This was from the second leader of the church who said, "bring em any way you can but Brigham young." Brigham had many wives you see.

 

[billydkid]

Everything I basically know about the Mormon religion comes from that one episode Southpark, and a few things I've picked up in pop-culture.

Apparently, all the information I can find on Google is sub-par apologetics or confessions from ex-Mormons, but I cant actually find much about the Book of Mormon itself.

For instance, I've heard:
* Mormons wear "special underwear" as a sign of the covenant with God
* believe they will inherit their own planet to govern as some kind of meta-god
* believe that the American Indians originated from a tribe in Jerusalem
* believe that the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County in Missouri
* believe in multiple tiers of Heaven and Hell
* that the Book of Mormon was authored by reading gold plates out of a hat

Where does it actually say these things in the Book of Mormon?

Mormons are a perfect illustration of exactly how stupid humans are. Some ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ claims an angel has given him two gold tablets on a farm in upstate NY containing additional testaments (or something). He reads the tablets from behind a screen for people to transcribe. The gold tablets are mysteriously lost. A new religion is born and has hundreds and thousands of adherents. Puts L. Ron Hubbard to shame.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

. A new religion is born and has hundreds and thousands of adherents. Puts L. Ron Hubbard to shame.

Funny you should mention L Ron. I have always understood that years before officially discovering the secrets of the religions that they started, both Joseph Smith and L Ron published their (not yet discovered! ) ideas in science fiction novels.

Robert A. Heinlein missed a chance to really cash in on Martian Groking.

 

[Dr Adequate]

One thing I worry about with Mormons is the way they have to wear suits. In the end, it's going to be like judges wearing wigs and bishops wearing gaiters. Speaking as an Englishman, I find that it just makes them look like real estate salesmen.

I think every religion should have a fair shot. They handicap themselves so much. The last evangelical Christian I met talked so much rubbish about evolution... that's another story.

By the way, does the thing about doing missionary work only apply to men? I've only ever seen male Mormon missionaries, but that's a small sample.

 

[RandFan]

One thing I worry about with Mormons is the way they have to wear suits. In the end, it's going to be like judges wearing wigs and bishops wearing gaiters. Speaking as an Englishman, I find that it just makes them look like real estate salesmen.

I think every religion should have a fair shot. They handicap themselves so much. The last evangelical Christian I met talked so much rubbish about evolution... that's another story.

By the way, does the thing about doing missionary work only apply to men? I've only ever seen male Mormon missionaries, but that's a small sample.

I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it is about 5 - 10% who are women.

 

[Jude]

“You can count the number of souls in Outer Darkness on one hand” I was told in church. This is their Hell, but it’s more like an infinitely large dark room; the torture being the absence of God.

Another ex-Mormon here. I was always taught that the Mormon equivalent of Hell wasn't Outer Darkness, but "Spirit Prison." When we die, our souls are whisked away to the Spirit World where we await judgment. It's divided into Spirit Paradise for the good folks who've repented and Spirit Prison where sinners are purged of their sins (like drug rehab for the soul). After repentence and conversion (Jesus is wandering around Spirit Prison and teaching the gospel as we speak), we're judged by God, receive refurbished bodies, and are sent to one of the three kingdoms of heaven.

 

[RandFan]

Re: Re: What do Mormons believe?

Mormons are a perfect illustration of exactly how stupid humans are. Some ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ claims an angel has given him two gold tablets on a farm in upstate NY containing additional testaments (or something). He reads the tablets from behind a screen for people to transcribe. The gold tablets are mysteriously lost. A new religion is born and has hundreds and thousands of adherents.

Count me as one of the true believers, at least I was for 20 years. I would like to think that I'm not stupid. I understand the desire to redicule such seemingly stupid beliefs.

 

[Kopji]

Most people mean 'LDS Mormon' when they say "Mormon", but there are several small sects. Pick any religion and there's always discontent in the margins.

I was raised RLDS, the friendly yet damned 'apostate' version of Mormonism.

This is now known as 'Community of Christ'*. Generally a more liberal outlook, and have had women in the priesthood for about 20 years. More easily confused with Quakers than LDS Mormons...

Most of the tiny sects like RLDS tend to reject Joseph Smith's later teachings. An RLDS would probably insist that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy, and it was introduced by Young.

Hey, because Mormon girls of any version are babes.

* Note: Allowing your church name to be changed to something pronounced "cock" is representative of a sometimes humorous naiveté that permeates RLDS.

 

[swstephe]

i was married to a mormon for 10 years. i went along to services and looked at their theology and found a number of things that most mormons don't seem to be aware of:

* according to early teachings, god was once a man who was a good mormon on the planet korban or korbal, (sp?). he was rewarded with the rule over what is known as earth. never was able to figure out if korban and earth are in the same universe or not.
* they believe in "baptism of the dead". that means they can get baptized in proxy for someone after they have died. supposedly, during the ressurection, the deceased then has a chance to claim the baptism and be counted as a mormon. they got in trouble once for trying to baptize jewish holocaust victims in proxy. they claimed to quit, but rumors that they just did it more secretly.
* joseph smith once commented that there were people on the moon. brigham young was asked to comment, confirmed it and that there were people living on the sun, (they come out at night, i suppose ;-)).
* according to one story, an archaeologist/believer brought back a scroll from egypt. joseph smith used his hat-over-the-face-with-magic-stones trick to interpret it and declared it the "book of abraham". it was included in the book of mormon and even includes "facimile drawings", (one person standing over another one laying down with a knife), from the scroll. a few decades later, the rosetta stone lead to mere mortals being able to read egyptian hyroglyphics and that the scroll was actually "the book of breathing", a common burial/mumification instruction manual. you can compare the two pictures directly and see that the animal heads had been covered up with badly drawn faces.
* most mormons today will tell you they don't smoke or drink alcohol or caffinated drinks. the original text (doctrines and covenants, ch. 54), says not to drink hot drinks or strong drinks, (except externally). it was joseph's smith's wife who insisted on a ban on tobacco because she was tired of cleaning up after the men.
* when joseph smith announced polygamy and his intention to take a second wife, he claimed a prophecy that his first wife would be cursed unless she accepted. she divorced him and started the RLDS.
* joseph smith made 66 "prophecies", only one came true -- he claimed that his bodyguard would never die during a fight -- he was right, he died in his sleep after drinking too much.
* blacks, (and most other races), were not allowed in the priesthood until the 1970's, due to public pressure, (again). there are verses in the book of mormon that imply dark skin is a sign of a curse from god on the souls of those who rebelled against god before birth. to this day, i don't know why minorities want to have anything to do with them. (i went to the mormon temple in taiwan -- there is a big painting, in the lobby, of heaven -- everyone in the painting of thousands of people is white and very american looking). there has never been a non-white president.

hmmm ... there is a lot more, but i'm getting boring.

 

[Kopji]

most Mormons today will tell you they don't smoke or drink alcohol or caffinated drinks. the original text (doctrines and covenants, ch. 54), says not to drink hot drinks or strong drinks, (except externally). it was joseph's smith's wife who insisted on a ban on tobacco because she was tired of cleaning up after the men.

"8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill. D&C 89" (LDS)

I would be surprised to hear a Mormon say that anyone but God would influence scripture.

* when joseph smith announced polygamy and his intention to take a second wife, he claimed a prophecy that his first wife would be cursed unless she accepted. she divorced him and started the RLDS.

1. Hearken unto the voice of the Lord your God, while I speak unto you, Emma Smith, my daughter; for verily I say unto you, all those who receive my gospel are sons and daughters in my kingdom.
7. And thou shalt be ordained under [Joseph’s] hand to expound scriptures, and to exhort the church, according as it shall be given thee by my Spirit.
8. For he shall lay his hands upon thee, and thou shalt receive the Holy Ghost, and thy time shall be given to writing, and to learning much. - D&C 25 1830 (LDS)

Hence the 'apostate' label. Emma Smith serves as a sort of general purpose boogeyman to many LDS Mormons and is generally derided as opposing Joseph Smith's more inspired revelations like polygamy. To the RLDS she is a great heroine of the faith who opposed heresy against evil guys who would destroy the church from within (etc etc etc).

The RLDS church was organized in 1860 with JS's son as president, many years after JS was murdered. The church motto was "we are not Them".

Emma Smith was a widow. I have no doubt that a false divorce story is circulating around though. There is almost no critical thinking going on.
Whatever the controversy around Emma Smith, she was a remarkable lady for her time. There are some historical resources listed on the RLDS website about her. http://www.cofchrist.org/seek/faq.asp

 

[RandFan]

Hi swstephe,

Let me make just a few corrections.

* according to early teachings, god was once a man who was a good mormon on the planet korban or korbal, (sp?). he was rewarded with the rule over what is known as earth. never was able to figure out if korban and earth are in the same universe or not.

It is Kolob. The concept is still alive today. There are many details like "same universe" or not that are left unanswered.

* they believe in "baptism of the dead". that means they can get baptized in proxy for someone after they have died. supposedly, during the ressurection, the deceased then has a chance to claim the baptism and be counted as a mormon. they got in trouble once for trying to baptize jewish holocaust victims in proxy. they claimed to quit, but rumors that they just did it more secretly.

It solves an age old riddle. How can god be merciful if he only lets folks who have had the opportunity to get baptized into heaven? This gives everyone the opportunity to be saved. It is based in part on a scripture by Christ "Why are they then baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all". So according to scripture baptism for the dead is not knew or unique to Mormons.

* joseph smith once commented that there were people on the moon. brigham young was asked to comment, confirmed it and that there were people living on the sun, (they come out at night, i suppose.

I had not heard of people living on the sun.

However there was a famous incident when Young claimed people were living on the moon. People mocked Young and a number of Mormons at the time insisted that Young had never said it. So at the next Conference (major church meeting) Young angrily denounced those who said he had not said it. He assured everyone that there were indeed folks living on the moon.

Apologists now say that Young was talking about spirits or something, anything to not admit that Young was a nut case.

* according to one story, an archaeologist/believer brought back a scroll from egypt. joseph smith used his hat-over-the-face-with-magic-stones trick to interpret it and declared it the "book of abraham". it was included in the book of mormon and even includes "facimile drawings", (one person standing over another one laying down with a knife), from the scroll. a few decades later, the rosetta stone lead to mere mortals being able to read egyptian hyroglyphics and that the scroll was actually "the book of breathing", a common burial/mumification instruction manual. you can compare the two pictures directly and see that the animal heads had been covered up with badly drawn faces.

Been there, done that, see above.

* when joseph smith announced polygamy and his intention to take a second wife, he claimed a prophecy that his first wife would be cursed unless she accepted. she divorced him and started the RLDS.

News to me. According to Mormon history they were together when Joseph Smith died. The Church fractured when Brigham Young became prophet because Emma (first wife) wanted her son to become profit.

 

[Scot C. Trypal]

* when joseph smith announced polygamy and his intention to take a second wife, he claimed a prophecy that his first wife would be cursed unless she accepted. she divorced him and started the RLDS.

News to me. According to Mormon history they were together when Joseph Smith died. The Church fractured when Brigham Young became prophet because Emma (first wife) wanted her son to become profit. [/B]

I think swstephe may have been thinking of D&C 132:54. Just after God reveals His wish to implement polygamy and gives the rational, He addresses Joseph’s wife:

D&C 132:54

And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

Tough to argue with that, even if it’s regarding your husband taking up another wife. But I don’t think Emma ever left Smith. I think, it was the split between Smith’s son and Brigham Young that spawned the RLDS, after Joseph's death.

 

[RandFan]

But I don’t think Emma ever left Smith. I think, it was the split between Smith’s son and Brigham Young that spawned the RLDS, after Joseph's death.

That was my only point.

There is an account in the church, I'm not sure if it is *apocryphal or not. In it Joseph Smith rejects the lords command to have more than one wife. An angel with a fiery sword is ordered to kill Joseph if he doesn't submit to the will of the Lord. How noble of him to refuse at first but then bend to the will of god.

You know, some of this church stuff might have some merit.

Honey, god said he would kill both of us if I didn't marry this 16 year old blonde with big breasts. Oh and BTW, God says that you are bi-sexual.

*Not part of accepted Church history.

 

[Gwyn ap Nudd]

News to me. According to Mormon history they were together when Joseph Smith died. The Church fractured when Brigham Young became prophet because Emma (first wife) wanted her son to become profit.

That's a pattern I've noticed a lot. If a sect is to survive the death of its founder and bcome a self-sustaining religion, it needs a second prophet. But the natural heirs of the founder usually disagree with the new prophet's teachings and break away, becoming a smaller self-sustaining religion.

--In Islam the minority Shiites follow the natural descendants of Mohammed, while the Sunnis follow the spiritual descendants of the Umayyad caliphs.

--Charles Taze Russell's "Bible Student Association" split after his death. The larger portion followed Judge Franklin Rutherford's teachings and kept control of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. This group is now commonly known as the "Jehovah's Witnesses." The smaller group, which remained true to Russell's teachings and his heirs is splintered but still survives

--Even mainstream Christianity can be viewed in this light: the gentile Church founded by Paul as the second prophet vs the Jerusealem Church headed by James the brother of Jesus. The destruction of Jerusalem by Rome and the Diaspora effectively killed the Jerusalem Church, though.

 

[RandFan]

That's a pattern I've noticed a lot. If a sect is to survive the death of its founder and bcome a self-sustaining religion, it needs a second prophet. But the natural heirs of the founder usually disagree with the new prophet's teachings and break away, becoming a smaller self-sustaining religion.

The nature of religion makes it difficult for it to adapt. Dramatic change usually occurs through appostacy. Martin Luther is perhaps one of the best example ever.

 

[Ossai]

Swstephe

* they believe in "baptism of the dead". that means they can get baptized in proxy for someone after they have died. supposedly, during the ressurection, the deceased then has a chance to claim the baptism and be counted as a mormon. they got in trouble once for trying to baptize jewish holocaust victims in proxy. they claimed to quit, but rumors that they just did it more secretly.

Yes and they are in trouble again for it. A Jewish group (can’t remember the name) legally petitioned them to remove all Jews from their listings and not include others in the future. The Mormons agreed, but a few years later and they are doing it again, at least according to the news. I remember reading all of the above in the Globe but you’ll have to do a search for the exact articles.

Ossai