What did Democrats do wrong?

[Emily's Cat]

So point out the vandalism.

And charge people who have been breaking the law.

It doesn't excuse the clear overreach, and violation of due process and abuse both non citizens and citizens.

I haven't suggested that it excuses overreach. I will, however, point out that law enforcement in Minneapolis is NOT PURSUING any kind of charges for vandalism or property damage.

Are you pretending that there hasn't been any?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

As evidenced by there being no change at all in EU and UK expenditures for their country defenses, and to defend Ukraine, when Trump *said* they were going to stop footing the bill against Russia?

I'd have thought the 62.8% rise in EU defense expenditures between 2020 and 2025 should count as a change in EU defense expenditures, but I do not have a graduate degree in MAGA math.

 

[bruto]

I'd have thought the 62.8% rise in EU defense expenditures between 2020 and 2025 should count as a change in EU defense expenditures, but I do not have a graduate degree in MAGA math.

But the leader who says magnets don't work when they're wet and windmills don't work when it's cold, and counts percentages in the thousands might disagree. I mean, you need to listen to both sides!

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Dems willing to keep funding Trump's death squads for vague promises of more considerate terrorizing of migrants and citizens.

 

[Segnosaur]

Dems willing to keep funding Trump's death squads for vague promises of more considerate terrorizing of migrants and citizens.

Its a little more complex than that.

Trump strikes deal with Democrats in government shutdown funding fight

The agreement includes advancing five spending bills and funding the Department of Homeland Security for two weeks as lawmakers negotiate changes to DHS and ICE.

www.nbcnews.com

President Donald Trump and Senate Democrats struck a deal Thursday to avert a prolonged shutdown for most of the federal government...
The agreement would fund all of the government except for the Department of Homeland Security through September. DHS would operate on a two-week stopgap bill...

In theory, it could be a good thing... it allows funding for Trump's gestapo to be separated from government services that, you know, people actually use/need (Things like the pentagon, transportation, education, etc.). And, if the Democrats play hardball (yeah, I understand your skepticism on this), they could even kill off DHS/ICE funding without it affecting the rest of the government.

The alternative would have been to do a complete government shutdown, which might give some posters here wet dreams, but those sorts of things do create a lot of collateral damage. (Regular government workers caught in the cross fire who see their lives upended, people with a critical need for certain government services, etc.)

 

[Pixel42]

I haven't suggested that it excuses overreach. I will, however, point out that law enforcement in Minneapolis is NOT PURSUING any kind of charges for vandalism or property damage.

Are you pretending that there hasn't been any?

AFAICS protesters in Minneapolis have been mostly careful to stay within the law. They obviously don't want to give the armed masked thugs terrorising their neighbourhoods, nor the administration which sent them, any excuse to escalate. But yes, I'd be surprised if tempers haven't frayed enough for a few such charges to be legitimately brought, and am puzzled as to why they haven't been.

For example there is a video going round which seems to show a protester kicking and breaking the tail light of an unmarked vehicle carrying masked, armed, unidentified people. Assuming they're law enforcement officers, definitely grounds for arrest on such charges you might think. The vehicle stops and they get out, but they make no attempt to arrest the offending protester. Instead they pile onto him, kicking and beating him down onto the ground. (By an amazing coincidence it's the same protester who will later be shot dead after again being kicked and beaten down onto the ground for going to the aid of a woman being similarly treated).

So do please explain to me why law enforcement are not pursuing any kind of charges for vandalism or property damage, but are instead apparently responding to it with yet more violence.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I'd have thought the 62.8% rise in EU defense expenditures between 2020 and 2025 should count as a change in EU defense expenditures, but I do not have a graduate degree in MAGA math.

It depends how you calculate it, do it one way and it's a 62.8% increase, use Deranged Narcissist with Dementia Maths and it's a reduction of 1386%^i.

 

[bruto]

I think it's interesting that it has gone this way this time. In the last shutdown, the Republicans were all in for blaming the Democrats for it all, but aside from health care being a different issue, I don't think it worked that well in the end. People are less likely to pay attention to the likely storm of anti-DHS rhetoric and testimony if it's over a limited bill than over the shutdown of the government.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

No one's going to pay attention to anything. ICE is not going to change their behavior because they're still funded, and even if they weren't they'd do it for free. Schumer will lower his glasses by a centimeter, DHS will pinkie promise to stop doing the things we all know they're going to keep doing, and the Democrats will fund DHS anyway because there's nothing to be gained by holding out.

Democratic leverage was in holding whole damned government hostage until their demands were met, and they've already folded on that. Yet again.

 

[bruto]

No one's going to pay attention to anything. ICE is not going to change their behavior because they're still funded, and even if they weren't they'd do it for free. Schumer will lower his glasses by a centimeter, DHS will pinkie promise to stop doing the things we all know they're going to keep doing, and the Democrats will fund DHS anyway because there's nothing to be gained by holding out.

Democratic leverage was in holding whole damned government hostage until their demands were met, and they've already folded on that. Yet again.

I can see that point, but it depends on what you realistically predict the outcome to be, because you get little from prolonging a battle if you cannot end up winning it.

 

[Segnosaur]

No one's going to pay attention to anything. ICE is not going to change their behavior because they're still funded...

As I pointed out, DHS/ICE funding has only been extended for 2 weeks.

and even if they weren't they'd do it for free.

But how are ICE agents going to afford to send their kids to Hitler youth camp if they are working for free?

Yeah, I am sure they would gladly shoot minorities in the back even if they weren't getting paid, but they still need the income.

Schumer will lower his glasses by a centimeter, DHS will pinkie promise to stop doing the things we all know they're going to keep doing, and the Democrats will fund DHS anyway because there's nothing to be gained by holding out.

While some skepticism is warranted, perhaps you might want to wait to see what actually happens?

Democratic leverage was in holding whole damned government hostage until their demands were met, and they've already folded on that. Yet again.

First of all, I see you've ignored the whole "collateral damage" thing. Its easy to be the brave soldier standing up to the republicans when you aren't the one who risks losing your home, or going hungry, as might happen in a prolonged government shutdown.

Plus, its only "leverage" if you are threatening to do something that will harm your opponent, and its possible that the republicans don't even care if the government gets shutdown, because they want government to fail anyways. So your leverage over the shutdown is less "stop or I will shoot your pet dog (which most people would not like)", and more like "stop or I will make you have sex with this really attractive person (which most people will like)".

Carving out DHS/ICE funding from the rest of the budget limits collateral damage, and gives the opportunity to exert more pressure (or even totally disband ICE).