What did Democrats do wrong?

[Helen]

The people who come to Sweden now are either people we want here because we need their skills, or asylum seekers, who have been forced to leave thir home (and we do need those as well, if not for all the million reasons that racists don't get, then at the very least to keep our population from completely vanishing). That is really all I need to know.

And the racists have been scaremongering for so long, but their dire warnings of sharia law, or how everyone will speak Arabic in twenty years, and stone women in a couple of generations, will not come true now, just as they didn't come true when refugees from Balkan came here (even if the warnings were differently worded then, they were still the same).

What The Don describes above could have been written about Sweden, or any other country in Europe. It may be understandable, but there is no excuse for the vilification of people for not being exactly like us; ffs, not even we are exactly like us! And believe me, it does not stop with bloody foreigners, the racists are more often than not misogynists, and will whine about lgbtqia+ people, and people with disabilities - bigotry has no boundaries. If we accept racism, if we do not call it out, we accept that.

We shoild not be expected to tolerate intolerance. Understand, yes fine, try to educate and improve life for all of us, even better, but do not accept racism and bigotry. Call it out.

 

[ahhell]

The people who come to Sweden now are either people we want here because we need their skills, or asylum seekers, who have been forced to leave thir home (and we do need those as well, if not for all the million reasons that racists don't get, then at the very least to keep our population from completely vanishing). That is really all I need to know.

And the racists have been scaremongering for so long, but their dire warnings of sharia law, or how everyone will speak Arabic in twenty years, and stone women in a couple of generations, will not come true now, just as they didn't come true when refugees from Balkan came here (even if the warnings were differently worded then, they were still the same).

What The Don describes above could have been written about Sweden, or any other country in Europe. It may be understandable, but there is
no excuse for the vilification of people for not being exactly like us; ffs, not even we are exactly like us! And believe me, it does not stop with bloody foreigners, the racists are more often than not misogynists, and will whine about lgbtqia+ people, and people with disabilities - bigotry has no boundaries. If we accept racism, if we do not call it out, we accept that.

We shoild not be expected to tolerate intolerance. Understand, yes fine, try to educate and improve life for all of us, even better, but do not accept racism and bigotry. Call it out.

I find the highlighted ironic.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

You can't at all empathize with someone who's lived in a place their whole life and sees it completely change and finds that disconcerting? The go to grocery they've always gone to and have trouble communicating with the clerk and find that disconcerting? You don't see anything that would cause a strain on resources in say a school with a large population of students who don't speak the common language?

If I empathize with you, will you vote for me? Or must I also validate your worst impulses in response to said disconcertment?

 

[Helen]

ahhell, that's exactly what I said - there is no need tolerate the intolerant, the people who talk about others the way racists do, are hateful. I refuse to tiptoe around them, we ought to know where that leads. So no, ahhell, there is no irony. But that is a nice little gotcha that the racists like to trot out as well. No, I am not calling you racist. Apologist, perhaps (or excusegist, since I am a follower of Mr. Deity).

 

[dirtywick]

That's all fine and good, it's just a bunch of racists listening to evil propaganda. What do you do with that, knowing that possibly the majority of voters or at least a large minority are a bunch of racists? Do you think, calling them a bunch or racists is actually going to help advance policies you want?

Personally, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

the republicans already compromised with them.

as far as i’m concerned, nobody should and they can stay home.

 

[ahhell]

the republicans already compromised with them.

as far as i’m concerned, nobody should and they can stay home.

Fine, be prepared to lose more elections then. Trump won the majority of voters and did better than any republican in my memory with minorities while being the most rhetorically racist candidate in my lifetime.

While I think, they are just racist lacks explanatory power, if it is the entire explanation. How does racists stay home help your cause?

 

[The Don]

That's all fine and good, it's just a bunch of racists listening to evil propaganda. What do you do with that, knowing that possibly the majority of voters or at least a large minority are a bunch of racists? Do you think, calling them a bunch or racists is actually going to help advance policies you want?

Personally, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

They're not just racists, though that's a major part, they're terrified by, and overwhelmed by change.

Many (most ?) people want to return to the simple, imagined life of their late teens or early twenties when life was easy, they were in their prime and they could cope with change.

 

[ahhell]

If I empathize with you, will you vote for me? Or must I also validate your worst impulses in response to said disconcertment?

It might help you craft a message better than, ◊◊◊◊ you you racist.

 

[dirtywick]

Fine, be prepared to lose more elections then. Trump won the majority of voters and did better than any republican in my memory with minorities while being the most rhetorically racist candidate in my lifetime.

While I think, they are just racist lacks explanatory power, if it is the entire explanation. How does racists stay home help your cause?

i don’t want my cause to be racism. if that’s a loss, it’s a loss.

i mean, time and time again i’ve seen what happens when you team up with the racists and the authoritarians and the pedophiles and the abusers. no thanks. rather be unpopular.

you think you can control them. you can’t.

 

[ahhell]

They're not just racists, though that's a major part, they're terrified by, and overwhelmed by change.

Many (most ?) people want to return to the simple, imagined life of their late teens or early twenties when life was easy, they were in their prime and they could cope with change.

Even that is.....condescending BS. Not just, they're worried about it or don't like it or possibly they don't like the pace. They are terrified and overwhelmed?

And as I've said, even if you actually understand them(you don't) what then? How do you get elected by using obviously belittling language (no matter how true) to describe voters?

 

[dirtywick]

It might help you craft a message better than, ◊◊◊◊ you you racist.

◊◊◊◊ racists is my message.

 

[ahhell]

i don’t want my cause to be racism. if that’s a loss, it’s a loss.

i mean, time and time again i’ve seen what happens when you team up with the racists and the authoritarians and the pedophiles and the abusers. no thanks. rather be unpopular.

you think you can control them. you can’t.

Good point, team up with racist and you get the New Deal, no thank you!

 

[The Don]

Even that is.....condescending BS. Not just, they're worried about it or don't like it or possibly they don't like the pace. They are terrified and overwhelmed?

And as I've said, even if you actually understand them(you don't) what then? How do you get elected by using obviously belittling language (no matter how true) to describe voters?

Yes, they're terrified and overwhelmed - not least because the message being blared by the right wing media is to be terrified of Muslims, Trans people, atheists, people trying to take their guns....

It's overwhelming.

 

[ahhell]

ahhell, that's exactly what I said - there is no need tolerate the intolerant, the people who talk about others the way racists do, are hateful. I refuse to tiptoe around them, we ought to know where that leads. So no, ahhell, there is no irony. But that is a nice little gotcha that the racists like to trot out as well. No, I am not calling you racist. Apologist, perhaps (or excusegist, since I am a follower of Mr. Deity).

You literally are talking about people the way racists do. You just call them racists instead of honky or what not. I'm reminded of the great Don Lemon who said, "It's time to stop demonizing people and admit the real problem is white men."

To be clear of course, I don't think being uncomfortable with change means you are necessarily a racist. I think, a lot of folks on the left don't agree with me. It is totally normal for a not racist person to look around and see that there hometown has changed a lot and think, "well this sucks!"

And none of these addresses how to win elections when roughly half of voters are folks you think are racists. If you want positive change you are going to have to figure how to get some of those votes.

 

[ahhell]

Seriously, you think half of voters are overwhelmed and terrified. Fine, what now?

 

[dirtywick]

try and appeal to another issue that isn’t irrational fear of immigrants. why isn’t that an option

 

[P.J. Denyer]

They're not just racists, though that's a major part, they're terrified by, and overwhelmed by change.

Many (most ?) people want to return to the simple, imagined life of their late teens or early twenties when life was easy, they were in their prime and they could cope with change.

Very much this, I used very similar words in a Quora answer about why shows like Happy Days and That 70's Show were so popular. Now please excuse me, I'm going to fire up Netflix & watch That 90's Show.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Even that is.....condescending BS. Not just, they're worried about it or don't like it or possibly they don't like the pace. They are terrified and overwhelmed?

If moderate concern or displeasure is enough for someone to be down with Alligator Alcatraz, how is "◊◊◊◊ you racist" not a more appropriate response than "empathy"? Imputing powerful emotions that overwhelm judgment is actually a much more charitable interpretation.

 

[johnny karate]

Fine, be prepared to lose more elections then. Trump won the majority of voters and did better than any republican in my memory with minorities while being the most rhetorically racist candidate in my lifetime.

While I think, they are just racist lacks explanatory power, if it is the entire explanation. How does racists stay home help your cause?

Trump is historically unpopular and losing ground by the day. That’s why Republicans are scrambling to rig the midterms.

This fantasy scenario you’ve created in which beleaguered white conservatives are overwhelmed by funny-talking foreigners and Trump has enacted wildly popular policies to address that might make you feel better about what’s happening in this country, but it’s embarrassing to watch someone debase themselves with such counterfactual nonsense.

Trump ran an overtly racist campaign and now his administration is doing overtly racist ◊◊◊◊ and millions of people are on board with that.

There’s no pretzel you can twist yourself into that changes any of that.

 

[johnny karate]

It might help you craft a message better than, ◊◊◊◊ you you racist.

Everyone who voted for Biden and Harris voted to send billions of their tax dollars to the communities of these people to improve their lives.

In response, they voted to threaten my financial wellbeing with an idiotic economic plan and kill me and my family with preventable diseases.

I’m not sure you understand how far past giving the slightest ◊◊◊◊ about their hurt feelings so many of us are.