What did Democrats do wrong?

[d4m10n]

Maybe, but do you acknowledge that they were held to different standards?

By whom?

If you're talking about media, I've seen enough double standards to agree without asking for more evidence.

If you're talking about swing voters, I suspect you are correct but have no evidence either way.

 

[johnny karate]

Nothing in this post indicates that Democrats did something wrong, or even pursued suboptimal policies/messaging regarding the economy.

Seems to me that you insist on changing the subject from one party's mistakes to another's mendacity.

Do you sincerely believe you are not deliberately derailing this topic?

What my post indicates is that the approach taken in this thread to understanding "what Democrats did wrong" is not rooted in reality. The only thing I'm "derailing" is the obstinacy of people in this thread who refuse to engage honestly.

For example, leading the thread poll currently is "too much transgender stuff". There was zero "transgender stuff" in the Harris campaign. If you answer the question "What did Democrats do wrong?" by saying they did too much of a thing that they didn't do at all, you're not engaging the question honestly.

So if me pointing out the level of dishonest engagement there is in this thread is "derailing", then I guess report me, because I'm gong to keep doing it.

 

[dirtywick]

and i think that goes hand in hand with examining the more successful campaign of their opponents, which was obsession over identity politics like trans rapists and mexican rapists, and policy positions that ranged from working through magical thinking to being nonexistent.

 

[johnny karate]

The only honest answer to the question "What did Democrats do wrong?" is "Not peddle lies and conspiracy theories to assuage the irrational fears and outrages of a credulous electorate awash in right wing propaganda".

 

[d4m10n]

For example, leading the thread poll currently is "too much transgender stuff". There was zero "transgender stuff" in the Harris campaign. If you answer the question "What did Democrats do wrong?" by saying they did too much of a thing that they didn't do at all, you're not engaging the question honestly.

Does the OP limit our consideration to the campaign, leaving out four years of governance?

I'd say obviously not since "fight illegal immigration" is something you can do with policy, but not with messaging.

Once again you have failed to come up with anything Democrats did wrong in the past four years.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Democrats were absolutely out of touch with voters on the Gaza conflict, and they knew it. With open eyes they decided they would rather lose than appear to be anything but 100% pro whatever the Israeli government wanted.

 

[johnny karate]

Does the OP limit our consideration to the campaign, leaving out four years of governance?

I'd say obviously not since "fight illegal immigration" is something you can do with policy, but not with messaging.

Yes, it was just four years of nonstop “transgender stuff”. You couldn’t get away from it.

It’s embarrassingly stupid to think Democrats doing too much “transgender stuff” was the number one reason they lost they election and even more embarrassingly stupid to double down on it.

Once again you have failed to come up with anything Democrats did wrong in the past four years.

I literally did just that in the post just before yours. And here, I’ll do it again: Insofar as the “transgender stuff” goes, what Democrats did fail to do was adequately demonize a marginalized group to the satisfaction of incoherent bigots.

 

[Disbelief]

Democrats were absolutely out of touch with voters on the Gaza conflict, and they knew it. With open eyes they decided they would rather lose than appear to be anything but 100% pro whatever the Israeli government wanted.

So the voters showed them by voting Republican. What is the Republican stance on Gaza and Israel?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

So the voters showed them by voting Republican. What is the Republican stance on Gaza and Israel?

Republicans didn't pretend that they cared.

And polls suggest that people who would have voted for Democrats if it wasn't for their failure on Gaza just didn't vote at all.
These were voters who would have supported Harris if she had just given a little indication that she wouldn't continue send weapons to Israel if the killing continued.
The OP was about what they did wrong: not bringing easy to persuade single issue voters onboard, but very visibly distancing themselves from them is what they did wrong.

 

[johnny karate]

Republicans didn't pretend that they cared.

And polls suggest that people who would have voted for Democrats if it wasn't for their failure on Gaza just didn't vote at all.
These were voters who would have supported Harris if she had just given a little indication that she wouldn't continue send weapons to Israel if the killing continued.
The OP was about what they did wrong: not bringing easy to persuade single issue voters onboard, but very visibly distancing themselves from them is what they did wrong.

Anyone who abstained from voting for Democrats because they didn’t like their position on Gaza, thereby opening the door for Republicans to win and implement even worse policies for Gaza, isn’t a serious person and doesn’t really care about Gaza beyond the performative.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Anyone who abstained from voting for Democrats because they didn’t like their position on Gaza, thereby opening the door for Republicans to win and implement even worse policies for Gaza, isn’t a serious person and doesn’t really care about Gaza beyond the performative.

"As a vegetarian, I can't eat this chicken so instead I'll order the veal!"

 

[Olmstead]

Democrats were absolutely out of touch with voters on the Gaza conflict, and they knew it. With open eyes they decided they would rather lose than appear to be anything but 100% pro whatever the Israeli government wanted.

I thought they did that because there was no way they are winning if they aren't 100% pro Israel, but maybe I misread the electorate.

 

[Donal]

Anyone who abstained from voting for Democrats because they didn’t like their position on Gaza, thereby opening the door for Republicans to win and implement even worse policies for Gaza, isn’t a serious person and doesn’t really care about Gaza beyond the performative.

Nifty. Still doesn't address the Democrats' failure in this area.

 

[johnny karate]

Nifty. Still doesn't address the Democrats' failure in this area.

No it doesn’t, but within the context of examining why they lost the election, it makes zero sense to attribute it to their Gaza policy.

If Democrats have a bad policy and they lose to someone with an even worse policy, Democrats didn’t lose because their policy wasn’t good enough. They lost because the electorate is politically illiterate.

 

[d4m10n]

Yes, it was just four years of nonstop “transgender stuff”. You couldn’t get away from it.

Nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

It’s embarrassingly stupid to think Democrats doing too much “transgender stuff” was the number one reason they lost they election and even more embarrassingly stupid to double down on it.

Nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

I’ll do it again: Insofar as the “transgender stuff” goes, what Democrats did fail to do was adequately demonize a marginalized group to the satisfaction of incoherent bigots.

You do not seriously believe that was a "wrong" move, obviously. Again, nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

If Democratic strategists came to you asking how to improve, you'd have nothing helpful to say.

Once again (again, again) you have failed to say anything remotely on topic.

I'm not getting the sense that you understand the assignment.

 

[d4m10n]

For the sake of all those who don't understand what this thread is about, here are some various examples of writers criticizing the Democratic Party on points where they would actually suggest improvement:

When Will Democrats Learn to Say No

The End of the Obama Coalition

From the Veal Pen to The Groups

From the veal pen to The Groups

Who they are and how they work

open.substack.com

 

[Donal]

No it doesn’t, but within the context of examining why they lost the election, it makes zero sense to attribute it to their Gaza policy.

If Democrats have a bad policy and they lose to someone with an even worse policy, Democrats didn’t lose because their policy wasn’t good enough. They lost because the electorate is politically illiterate.

It goes to the idea that people don 't want diet Republicans when super concentrated unfiltered Republicans are right there. That the party that really does represent the policies that are not only better for but also more popular among the American public is somehow so disconnected from that public.

 

[johnny karate]

Nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

Nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

You do not seriously believe that was a "wrong" move.

Again, nothing here about anything Democrats did wrong.

Once again (again, again) you have failed to say anything on topic.

I’ve twice provided reasons why I think Democrats lost the election in recent posts. Just because you don’t approve of them doesn’t make them off-topic. Feel free to engage me on those points.

I’ve also directly engaged with the topic by arguing why I think other reasons provided are wrong (the economy, “transgender stuff”, Gaza). Feel free to engage me on those points.

The only off-topic posts I’m seeing now are coming from you. Your constant hall monitoring is tedious and adds nothing to the discussion. Please get back to the topic of the thread.

 

[Donal]

For the sake of all those who don't understand what this thread is about, here are some various examples of writers criticizing the Democratic Party on points where they would actually suggest improvement:

When Will Democrats Learn to Say No

The End of the Obama Coalition

From the Veal Pen to The Groups

From the veal pen to The Groups

Who they are and how they work

open.substack.com

I think that author means "Say No to Those Other People". They seem pretty happy to say yes to corporate donors and right-wingers.

 

[johnny karate]

It goes to the idea that people don 't want diet Republicans when super concentrated unfiltered Republicans are right there. That the party that really does represent the policies that are not only better for but also more popular among the American public is somehow so disconnected from that public.

Rejecting “diet Republicans” only to end up with “Republicans” is self-defeating. It puts you farther away from your stated goal.

That so many people voted against their own interests is a testament to the power of propaganda.

I suppose their is an argument be made that Democrats didn’t do a good enough job combatting this propaganda, but believing propaganda is a choice and talking people out of something their identity demands they believe is pretty much impossible.