What did Democrats do wrong?

[3point14]

When The Party won the election based on a house of lies, built on a foundation of lies, is there much point in trying to figure out why the Dems lost?
We lost because we haven't found a good strategy to deal with the misinformation media empire that the GOP has built in the last 40 years.

Yes. The 'what did the Democrats do wrong' is a redherring discussion.

If they move to the left, they're pilloried. If they move to the right, the ultra right Republicans go further right.

Democrats are required to be perfect in every respect. Rpublicans can do what they want. The press, in the vast majority, under-report Democrat success and over-report Republican success. And the inverse of both.

It's not about what Democrats did wrong. It's about how the system (and bear in mind, this is the system that led to Donald Trump being president) simply doesn't work.

The discussion 'What did the Democratic Party do wrong' is, however, a fantastic distraction from just how broken the USA is.

 

[Donal]

Time and attention spent on identity issues did not get spent elsewhere, obviously. I'm going to use the magic portal in my basement to access the alternate world where that didn't happen quite as much and see if I can pull their budget documents at both state and federal levels. This may take a while, and I'm not sure if I'll ever make it back to this particular Everett branch of reality.

By that logic, pardoning the Thanksgiving Turkeys prevented the Biden amdinistration from helping the middle class. Again, you continue to push a right-wing talking point.

Can we frame it the other way? All of the attacks by the Republicans on "those people" took away from their time and energy to help the middle class.

 

[d4m10n]

Again, you continue to push a right-wing talking point.

In attempting to answer your question, I am blamed for pushing a right wing talking point.

Going forward, I will adjust my behavior accordingly.

 

[theprestige]

Yes. The 'what did the Democrats do wrong' is a redherring discussion.

If they move to the left, they're pilloried. If they move to the right, the ultra right Republicans go further right.

Democrats are required to be perfect in every respect.

Nonsense. Democrats are required expected assumed to have some thoughts on why they lost the election. Either it's because they did everything right, but the Republicans did everything right and better...

... Or the Democrats missed a step somewhere.

That's the topic, not the alleged perfection of Democrats.

 

[3point14]

Nonsense. Democrats are required expected assumed to have some thoughts on why they lost the election. Either it's because they did everything right, but the Republicans did everything right and better...

... Or the Democrats missed a step somewhere.

That's the topic, not the alleged perfection of Democrats.

Who said anything about perfection?

When the game is rigged, ask how it's rigged, not what you did wrong.

 

[theprestige]

Who said anything about perfection?

Literally you did.

When the game is rigged, ask how it's rigged, not what you did wrong.

Playing a rigged game is usually considered the wrong thing to do. Especially if you're convinced you need to win it, and don't actually have a plan to win it.

Also, the Democrats have been playing this game, and contributing to its rulebook, for generations. The rigging is their rigging as well. They don't complain about the game when the rigging works in their favor. They can't complain about it now. (Well, they can complain about it now, but it just makes them look like jackasses.)

ETA: You can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously claim you did nothing wrong, and admit that you lost an election that you desperately needed to win for the good of all mankind.

 

[Brainster]

The circumstances of this election are pretty unique and unlikely to recur, so it doesn't seem useful to talk about the mini-primary concept to come up with a replacement nominee. Parties would certainly be well-advised to scrutinize older candidates carefully for signs of slipping.
Was Kamala fated to lose? That's quite a bit harder to say. The choice of Shapiro over Walz for VP might had nudged PA into the win column. As for the "what would you have done differently," question, yeah, she was in a tough spot there, because the two obvious choices (not sending out the inflationary third round of Covid checks) and tougher enforcement at the border were issues she, as the tie-breaking vote on the IRA and as the "Border Czar," (don't quibble) was inextricably tied to the Biden policies. That's definitely a spot where another candidate would have been better off.

 

[3point14]

Literally you did.

No, I said they were expected to be perfect. Not that they were alleged to be.

Playing a rigged game is usually considered the wrong thing to do. Especially if you're convinced you need to win it, and don't actually have a plan to win it.

Are you suggesting they don't play? A one party state? Cracking idea...

Also, the Democrats have been playing this game, and contributing to its rulebook, for generations. The rigging is their rigging as well. They don't complain about the game when the rigging works in their favor. They can't complain about it now. (Well, they can complain about it now, but it just makes them look like jackasses.)

Not sure there's a viable alternative to playing the rigged game. And I don't really think it's the political classes that should be complaining about it. Just those they govern.

ETA: You can't have it both ways. You can't simultaneously claim you did nothing wrong, and admit that you lost an election that you desperately needed to win for the good of all mankind.

I didn't do anything. This is not my fight. I'm just observing from the sidelines. And at no point did I claim they needed to win for the good of mankind. Not sure where you got that from.

In my opinion, any contest that ends with Donald J Trump in the winning position is definitely bent somehow. You seriously think that DJ Trump becoming the president of the USA, Leader of the free world and the most powerful man on the planet (maybe) is a viable, honest and well constructed system? That's a laughable position.

 

[Emily's Cat]

There should be an option for "Assumed white women would do the right thing". I said relying on them was a bad idea.

Huh. White people - both male and female - are the only demographic that the Dems increased their share of. Not enough to win, but still. They lost share among all other demographics.

 

[d4m10n]

Okay, so you think that when Biden dropped out the Democrats should have held primaries?

No, I think Biden should have committed (at least to himself and Catholic Jesus) not to run for a second term.

Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital. According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president.​

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

 

[ahhell]

Huh. White people - both male and female - are the only demographic that the Dems increased their share of. Not enough to win, but still. They lost share among all other demographics.

Why are you defending racists?

The primary dem screw up, the only thing they had control of and honestly, they didn't have much control of it, was Biden running unopposed (almost there was a guy, and the Dems kneecapped him.) Secondarily is the, if you don't vote for us you suck attitude. Tertiarily, is Harris did run on all the extreme woke stuff 5 years ago, its pretty easy to remind folks of that. Quaternarily, gaslighting so obviously about Bidens age and senility. The are still kind of doing that with the Hunter pardon. Nobody* actually cares about that, everyone* knows he did it because he doesn't want his son to go to jail, everyone understands that. Stop pretending there's some high-minded reason for it.

Why do we need to address what the Dems did wrong, its not for finger pointing and name calling or holding them to a higher standard than the GOP, its so they can get elected in the future.

*I know, there's always someone. And I know, Trump is the king of gaslighting, sucks but he can get away with it for some reason.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Okay, so you think that when Biden dropped out the Democrats should have held primaries? Would that even have been possible at that date? I don't think primaries can be called on demand by the parties, I think the states have rules about when they can happen, don't they?

Fair point... and THIS is something that the Democrats did wrong.

It's not like Biden's mental state was a mystery that snuck up on everyone out of the blue, it's not like the debate was the very first time anyone ever saw Biden not putting things together. Nope, it was pretty clearly the case for about a year. But instead of Dems dealing with it like grown-ups and addressing it early in the cycle... they doubled down (with the assistance of left-leaning media) and lied to the entire country, saying Biden was the sharpest they'd ever been, totally in control, in perfect mental health, and that every single bit of video evidence presented was right-wing propaganda deep/cheap fakes.

DNC absolutely should have been up-front about the situation and addressed it head on. That would have allowed them to have an open primary so that supporters could have selected someone they actually liked and approved of.

But instead, Dems were complicit in trying to cover it up and lie to the citizens... and drag it out long enough that registered Dems didn't get any say at all in who they had on the ballot. Harris was shoved into that position without the support or consent of voters.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why are you defending racists?

Say what now? Where are you getting this view from? In what way am I defending racists?

The primary dem screw up, the only thing they had control of and honestly, they didn't have much control of it, was Biden running unopposed (almost there was a guy, and the Dems kneecapped him.) Secondarily is the, if you don't vote for us you suck attitude. Tertiarily, is Harris did run on all the extreme woke stuff 5 years ago, its pretty easy to remind folks of that. Quaternarily, gaslighting so obviously about Bidens age and senility. The are still kind of doing that with the Hunter pardon. Nobody* actually cares about that, everyone* knows he did it because he doesn't want his son to go to jail, everyone understands that. Stop pretending there's some high-minded reason for it.

Why do we need to address what the Dems did wrong, its not for finger pointing and name calling or holding them to a higher standard than the GOP, its so they can get elected in the future.

*I know, there's always someone. And I know, Trump is the king of gaslighting, sucks but he can get away with it for some reason.

Pretty much agree on your points here.

Just extremely confused why you're accusing me of defending racists...

 

[d4m10n]

But instead of Dems dealing with it like grown-ups and addressing it early in the cycle... they doubled down (with the assistance of left-leaning media) and lied to the entire country, saying Biden was the sharpest they'd ever been, totally in control, in perfect mental health, and that every single bit of video evidence presented was right-wing propaganda deep/cheap fakes.

This is high up my list of Democratic Party ◊◊◊◊ ups, but I'm putting this in the same bin as post #1,030 since it could have been easily averted by the incumbent and his advisors sticking to the original plan as laid out in that Politico article. The major disutility of that bin is that it holds no lessons for next time around, since we'll definitely have an actual contested primary in 2028.

 

[dirtywick]

The primary dem screw up, the only thing they had control of and honestly, they didn't have much control of it, was Biden running unopposed (almost there was a guy, and the Dems kneecapped him.) Secondarily is the, if you don't vote for us you suck attitude. Tertiarily, is Harris did run on all the extreme woke stuff 5 years ago, its pretty easy to remind folks of that. Quaternarily, gaslighting so obviously about Bidens age and senility. The are still kind of doing that with the Hunter pardon. Nobody* actually cares about that, everyone* knows he did it because he doesn't want his son to go to jail, everyone understands that. Stop pretending there's some high-minded reason for it.

Why do we need to address what the Dems did wrong, its not for finger pointing and name calling or holding them to a higher standard than the GOP, its so they can get elected in the future.

*I know, there's always someone. And I know, Trump is the king of gaslighting, sucks but he can get away with it for some reason.

you're getting too far from constructive criticism and examination of what the dems did wrong into what someone i think probably voted for the dems or is maybe european i argued with on the internet said as you go down your list of screw ups. it's a really common mistake in this thread, you're not the only one making it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is high up my list of Democratic Party ◊◊◊◊ ups, but I'm putting this in the same bin as post #1,030 since it could have been easily averted by the incumbent and his advisors sticking to the original plan as laid out in that Politico article. The major disutility of that bin is that it holds no lessons for next time around, since we'll definitely have an actual contested primary in 2028.

Sure, we'll likely have a genuine primary... but failing to acknowledge it does beg the question a bit. There are all kinds of things I think Dems could have done differently that I think could have given them an edge this election. But at the end of the day, I also sincerely think that if there'd been a genuine primary... someone other than Harris would have been the nominee, and I think there's a reasonable chance they would have been able to beat Trump.

Overall, I think the results can be summed up as "Dems failed to read the room". And of all the rooms that they failed to read... shoehorning Harris in as the only option and cutting supporters out of the process was probably the failest of fails.

 

[d4m10n]

Overall, I think the results can be summed up as "Dems failed to read the room". And of all the rooms that they failed to read... shoehorning Harris in as the only option and cutting supporters out of the process was probably the failest of fails.

Harris was literally the only other person whose name was on the Biden/Harris campaign legal documents, so she was in a unique position to inherit the campaign infrastructure, staff, & war chest after it became obvious even to MSNBC viewers that Biden had lost a step.

 

[Trausti]

Harris shouldn't have skipped out on the Al Smith dinner.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847189471533432956

 

[d4m10n]

Ezra Klien argues that "Democrats left a huge opening for the right by refusing to admit what so many Americans constantly see and feel: The institutions that have power over them are often doing a really bad job."

If you look at the election, Democrats lost the most support in blue states and blue cities. They lost the most support in the places where people are most exposed to Democratic governance — and yeah, Democratic institutions. I always find this amazing.

The first contract to build the New York subways was awarded in 1900. Four years later — four years — the first 28 stations opened.

Compare that to now. In 2009, Democrats passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, pumping billions into high-speed rail. Fifteen years later, you cannot board a high-speed train funded by that bill anywhere in the country.​

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/22/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jennifer-pahlka-steven-teles.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

 

[Solitaire]

No, I think Biden should have committed (at least to himself and Catholic Jesus) not to run for a second term.

Biden has for now settled on an alternative strategy: quietly indicating that he will almost certainly not run for a second term while declining to make a promise that he and his advisers fear could turn him into a lame duck and sap him of his political capital. According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president.​

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129

Biden didn't want to run for President in 2018. But when he looked at the rest of the field, he didn't find anyone who could beat Trump. So he put aside his pride, and committed ten years of his life to being the transition president. I guess, from the Baby Boomers to the Millenials. He played the waiting game hoping a new generation of professional politicians would appear over that decade and take his place in 2028. It never happened, alas.

I guess those four people know nothing about his intentions or the history of the presidency for that matter.