What did Democrats do wrong?

[bruto]

Of course as always this is anecdotal, but I think theprestige is mistaken about some issues regarding public education and how many generations got indoctrinated how. I went to public school in the 1950's and 60's and I can guarantee that it was not progressive in any way that would be taken so nowadays. Not that this is the only argument one could make, but I think there is a little bit of slackness in the historical and sociological presentation there.

Though I think Reformed Offlian is not reading theprestige's post correctly. I don't think he's saying the Democrats did not indoctrinate kids enough, but that their indoctrination was so inherently wrong that the people rejected it anyway.

 

[theprestige]

It's almost like public schools aren't the hotbed of progressive indoctrination you think they are, but just underpaid educated people doing their best to teach the basics.

I don't see how Democrats get the flak for this, other than the fact that educated people inexplicably seem to end up with progressive values.

I'm not even talking about indoctrination. I'm talking about basic education. Civics. Critical thinking. Basic patterns of thought and understanding that should lead an intelligent person away from demagoguery at election time.

Hispanic Americans aren't predominantly attending Maga Elementary and Maga High. Neither are Black Americans. Yet the Democrats lost ground with both those groups this year. Maybe the Democrats suck at education, at least a little.

 

[Thermal]

I'm not even talking about indoctrination. I'm talking about basic education. Civics. Critical thinking. Basic patterns of thought and understanding that should lead an intelligent person away from demagoguery at election time.

Hispanic Americans aren't predominantly attending Maga Elementary and Maga High. Neither are Black Americans. Yet the Democrats lost ground with both those groups this year. Maybe the Democrats suck at education, at least a little.

Maybe so. Or maybe Americans in general are easily distracted by snazzy narratives and flashy rhetoric over the more mundane and murky matters of effective governance.

Eta: I'll bet the average voter could tell you more about their jazzy new iPhone and who won the Super Bowl than they could about the intricacies of representative legislation. Plump and well entertained butts make for lousy voters.

 

[Olmstead]

I'm not even talking about indoctrination. I'm talking about basic education. Civics. Critical thinking. Basic patterns of thought and understanding that should lead an intelligent person away from demagoguery at election time.

Hispanic Americans aren't predominantly attending Maga Elementary and Maga High. Neither are Black Americans. Yet the Democrats lost ground with both those groups this year. Maybe the Democrats suck at education, at least a little.

Again, how is the education sector solely the Democrats responsibility? Do they have a veto to funnel funds from ill-advised anti-immigration ventures into education, and they haven't been using it? What does this supposed progressive influence on education entail?

Were teachers meant to use their progressive superpowers to transcend their qualifications and means?

 

[d4m10n]

For some reason, you want to pretend that these people made a rational choice and are therefore open to rational counter messaging.

The entire project of scientific skepticism rests upon the premise that it is possible to talk at least some people out of beliefs which they could not possibly have adopted rationally, that is, by validly reasoning from sound premises. If you're not down with that, you may well be in the wrong forum.

 

[d4m10n]

I don't see how Democrats get the flak for this, other than the fact that educated people inexplicably seem to end up with progressive values.

Not sure it's all that inexplicable, if we care to look at the ideological balance in elite educational institutions such as Harvard and Penn.

 

[Olmstead]

Not sure it's all that inexplicable, if we care to look at the ideological balance in elite educational institutions such as Harvard.

Educated people are progressive because educated people are progressive?

 

[d4m10n]

No, because their educators are progressive.

Also, though, because of (self-)selection effects given an overwhelmingly left-of-center campus culture.

If you're a Christian conservative student, you're going to be much more comfortable as a private Xn university or perhaps one of the service academies.

 

[Donal]

I'm not even talking about indoctrination. I'm talking about basic education. Civics. Critical thinking. Basic patterns of thought and understanding that should lead an intelligent person away from demagoguery at election time.

Hispanic Americans aren't predominantly attending Maga Elementary and Maga High. Neither are Black Americans. Yet the Democrats lost ground with both those groups this year. Maybe the Democrats suck at education, at least a little.

Are you saying lack of critical thinking skills and basic civics knowledge is what makes Republicans?

I can see that.

 

[Olmstead]

No, because their educators are progressive.

Also, though, because of (self-)selection effects given an overwhelmingly left-of-center campus culture.

If you're a Christian conservative student, you're going to be much more comfortable as a private Xn university or perhaps one of the service academies.

And their educators are progressive because?

 

[Donal]

No, because their educators are progressive.

that's a chicken or the egg type issue

Also, though, because of (self-)selection effects given an overwhelmingly left-of-center campus culture.

Yes, we've heard this over and over. Even though the most common 4-year degree is in business and most of those faculty lean conservative.

If you're a Christian conservative student, you're going to be much more comfortable as a private Xn university or perhaps one of the service academies.

That's not a good thing. And not even really true. Look at Jesuit schools like Fordham.

 

[d4m10n]

Even though the most common 4-year degree is in business and most of those faculty lean conservative.

I'd be amazed if that is true at any of the top tier universities. State schools, perhaps.

 

[d4m10n]

And their educators are progressive because?

ISBN 9780674059092

 

[theprestige]

Are you saying lack of critical thinking skills and basic civics knowledge is what makes Republicans?

I can see that.

No. I'm saying that somehow Hispanics and Blacks got "stupider" this election cycle.

And I'm saying that even most "Republicans" have been through American public schools. So why don't they have critical thinking skills and basic civics knowledge? Are American public school educators just not teaching those things?

 

[Olmstead]

ISBN 9780674059092

And here I thought answering a question with only a book link was the gravest of message board sins. I was wrong, pasting just the ISBN is much worse.

 

[theprestige]

Entering or remaining in the country illegally is not a crime, it is a civil violation. If it was a crime, it would put prosecutors in the awkward position of having to prove a negative (that a person residing in the US did not have legal permission).

Then deportation should be a piece of piss, since it only requires a preponderance of evidence.

 

[d4m10n]

And here I thought answering a question with only a book link was the gravest of message board sins. I was wrong, pasting just the ISBN is much worse.

Let me just sum up seven years of intensive social science research for you real quick.

Seriously, though, I think it's cool that you asked the sort of question which requires around 400 pages to answer, but I'm not about to pretend I can just wing up a summary. Maybe ask chat GPT.

 

[dirtywick]

The entire project of scientific skepticism rests upon the premise that it is possible to talk at least some people out of beliefs which they could not possibly have adopted rationally, that is, by validly reasoning from sound premises. If you're not down with that, you may well be in the wrong forum.

pretty sure we're talking about what the dems could have done differently to influence the rest of the at least some people

fact is, scientific skepticism kind of sucks at that

 

[d4m10n]

At influencing people?

 

[johnny karate]

It's not clear to me that you approve of the thing.

Also, it's not clear to me that you approve of deporting illegal immigrants for the crime of entering or remaining in the country illegally.

I mean, giving the impression that they're against basic immigration enforcement seems to be perhaps one of the things Democrats have been doing wrong. Even now you're hedging.

Coming from someone who gives the impression that they're against vaccines, none of this means a whole lot to me.