What did Democrats do wrong?

[TragicMonkey]

Trump's speech complaining about immigrants from ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ countries, and bemoaning the lack of immigrants from countries like Norway, made it abundantly clear who he is talking about.

Now, now, remember: it's unfair to judge Trump by the things he says. Or the things he does. Or the things he says he does but doesn't do. Or the things he does but says he doesn't.

 

[dirtywick]

which is nice because no matter who you are, you can say he won't do whatever you think is crazy and will do whatever you hope happens which is very appealing to idiots

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Don't know, don't care. It's the illegality, not the ethnicity, that matters to me.

To you, perhaps, though others here seem to doubt that. However, to many of Trump's white supremacist supporters, and to Bogative here on this forum, the skin colour is paramount.

My hypothesis is that some people know that illegal immigration is indefensible, but don't want to concede a point to "the right", so they resort to vile non sequiturs as part of a Big Lie strategy.

Calling racists 'racists' is not a vile non sequitur.
Venturing an opinion on matters American here, and bracing myself for the fury this will engender ("GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS THREAD!! Y'ALL AIN'T NO MURICAN!!!! Y'ALL DON' HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE A-COMMENTIN' HERE!!!!!!), I did talk about this before, with reference to the 2016 election. People are concerned about immigration- and this is a valid concern. The problem, back in 2016 and now in 2024, is that far too often, Democrats took the lazy, patronising approach, talking down to these people and dismissing them as stupid racists. They were then- and are now- apparently bewildered that these people they insulted and patronised didn't vote for them. Immigration, both legal and illegal, does affect communities, and politicians need to deal with these effects, and listen to the voters who are concerned about them. Ignoring them, or talking down to them, won't help.
Unfortunately, because the Democrats alienated these voters so effectively, they got swept up by the extremist right, who fanned the flames and enticed these voters into the fold, along with a sizeable number of far-right, white supremacist scumbags. A major part of Trump's appeal rests on his affecting to listen to these disenchanted people, who feel that they are being ignored by the left-wing intelligentsia.

It's not like Cosmic Yak has a principled, coherent argument for why illegal immigration should be tolerated if it's brown people.

Why would I? It is not my belief that illegal immigration should be 'tolerated' at all. Nor do I understand why you would say that.

 

[Donal]

Do you think he'll go after people who lied on their "Einstein visa" applications? Or folks who were working under the table illegally while on a student visa?

 

[The Don]

Do you think he'll go after people who lied on their "Einstein visa" applications? Or folks who were working under the table illegally while on a student visa?

Depends on how brown they are and where they're from.

White northern Europeans have little to fear but everyone else has more to be concerned with.

 

[Donal]

Well, I know at least one African who was working illegally while here on a student visa

 

[The Don]

Well, I know at least one African who was working illegally while here on a student visa

If that African is pale and extremely rich then he can rest easy...

 

[d4m10n]

Everyone knows they are talking about brown people, including you.

I'd be willing to bet Puerto Ricans won't be deported, given that deportation involves moving people to a different nation.

Anyhow, I'm going to take your inability to provide any evidence beyond "everyone knows" as an admission of defeat.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I'd be willing to bet Puerto Ricans won't be deported, given that deportation involves moving people to a different nation.

Anyhow, I'm going to take your inability to provide any evidence beyond "everyone knows" as an admission of defeat.

That may be because Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. aren't immigrants.

 

[bruto]

I'd be willing to bet Puerto Ricans won't be deported, given that deportation involves moving people to a different nation.

Anyhow, I'm going to take your inability to provide any evidence beyond "everyone knows" as an admission of defeat.

Yes indeed. I imagine someone in Trump's retinue will at least try to remind him that Puerto Ricans are American citizens and can't be deported. I think if I were Puerto Rican, I might not bet my life on the next administration's commitment to either rationality or legality, but I think you're safe at least for now, as are, I hope, naturalized citizens who happen to have Hispanic backgrounds. So far. Once democracy starts circling the drain, though, it's hard to slow things down.

That may be because Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. aren't immigrants.

I suspect (anecdotally only, of course) that a fair percentage of people don't realize this, which is why the R party was able to use digusting anti-PR jokes in its campaign, and that a fair percentage of those who do realize it would be happy to change it.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I suspect (anecdotally only, of course) that a fair percentage of people don't realize this, which is why the R party was able to use digusting anti-PR jokes in its campaign, and that a fair percentage of those who do realize it would be happy to change it.

Those jokes helped remind me that "patriotism" for a lot of these folks starts with 'R' and has only three syllables. I could only wonder: "Y'all do realize he's mocking *your* country, right? That the state of PR is a reflection on you?"

 

[d4m10n]

That may be because Puerto Ricans living in the U.S. aren't immigrants.

Yes but I've been assured (by a skeptic who presumably has evidence) that Trump intends to deport all Hispanics, East Indians, Middle Easterners, etc. Presumably not ethnic Yugoslavs, though.

I could only wonder: "Y'all do realize he's mocking *your* country, right? That the state of PR is a reflection on you?"

An excellent and noteworthy point.

 

[bruto]

Yes but I've been assured (by a skeptic who presumably has evidence) that Trump intends to deport all Hispanics, East Indians, Middle Easterners, etc. Presumably not ethnic Yugoslavs, though.

An excellent and noteworthy point.

I would not worry so much about the actual deportation, even though there are reports of "accidental" deportation of citizens numbering into the thousands. A statistical nothingburger, no doubt. But I would worry a bit more about the general unpleasantness, harassment, and procedural nuisance that can come with social division. Keep your ausweis handy. And, though we're all basking in our "it can't happen here" presumption, which I certainly still hope is true, we should not forget that when other countries have embarked on ethnic cleansing the niceties of citizenship have been of little help.

 

[Tero]

It was really difficult see anything positive in Trump. Only fear and hate. But voters somehow see less regulation, less corporate tax and Trump tariffs as hopeful.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/15/majorities-in-poll-give-trump-green-light-for-some-controversial-policies.html

A firm belief in free market. Even when many corporations are near monolopies.

 

[Donal]

I'd be willing to bet Puerto Ricans won't be deported, given that deportation involves moving people to a different nation.

Anyhow, I'm going to take your inability to provide any evidence beyond "everyone knows" as an admission of defeat.

You think American citizens don't get deported?

 

[d4m10n]

You think American citizens don't get deported?

You think that there's no difference between ICE making an "inexcusable error" while identifying and processing suspects and the claim we're discussing right now? "Trump's call to deport all brown people" if enacted would mean that such errors are no longer errors, they are executive policy. Not sure what any of this has to do with the OP topic though, so I'm going to stop replying.

 

[Donal]

That's my point. They wouldn't be "errors". They would be acceptable losses.

 

[d4m10n]

That's my point. They wouldn't be "errors". They would be acceptable losses.

Care to make a prediction here?

Perhaps "What the Democrats did wrong" was not be alarmist enough about the mass deportations which really will happen, unlike the Mexico-funded wall.

 

[Donal]

I think they wil lcontinue to scream and shout about the violent criminals, find a handful of examples to deport. But, when it becomes obvious that there aren't enough of those to support the armed storm troopers raiding people's neighborhoods, they will simply focus on DACA cases, since they already have the current addresses for those people. And probably folks who hav eover stayed their visa, but have otherwise kept their ehads down.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I suspect immigration enforcement is less about actually deporting illegal aliens and more about keeping illegal alien laborers from daring to protest being exploited with low wages and unsafe working conditions. But that would mean big businesses are putting their profits above human decency, and the government is helping them....nah, that can't be right, can it?