What did Democrats do wrong?

[johnny karate]

Again, we're not talking about deep MAGA constituencies, where the Dems never had a chance. We're talking about left-leaning voters in swing states, who needed more encouragement to turn out. And it seems that the current state of trans rights privileges in public policy are in fact a turn-off for a lot of left-leaning voters.

And again, the margin of victory wasn't insurmountable. It's not unreasonable for Democrats to conduct an honest post-mortem on what went wrong, if only to improve their showing in the mid-terms.

No, it was the propaganda surrounding trans issues that turned those voters off, because a) the Harris campaign didn't mention trans issues in the 2024 election cycle and b) Harris did explicitly mention support for trans rights in the run-up to the 2022 election and voters showed up and delivered Democrats a historically impressive showing,

 

[johnny karate]

I mean, if the real answer is, there was nothing the Democrats could do, the fascist voting bloc was just too large to ever defeat at the polls, then I I guess what the Democrats did wrong was not launch a bloody revolt, having already exhausted all democratic remedies. Because you've tried every peaceful, democratic thing you can possibly try. You've had the best messaging, and the best voter drives you could possibly have. You've engaged in every legal expedient against corruption and treason that the courts would allow. You've done it all. You've done nothing wrong. But you still can't win, because the forces of evil are just too strong. Even doing everything right isn't enough. And in that case, there's one more right thing to do: Hoist the black flag and start slitting throats. Which the Democrats failed to do.

Maybe that's the moral of this story. Maybe that's the message behind this refusal to conduct a proper post-mortem: The next step is revolution, but the Democrats can't bring themselves to take that step.

No one has claimed that Democrats didn't make any mistakes and that you all keep falling back to that dishonest framing demonstrates the weakness of your argument.

 

[johnny karate]

First off, "What did the Democrats do wrong?" cannot be answered solely in terms of campaigning without regard to governance. Arguably—and in my view—voters should be much more concerned with their experiences of governance rather than their perceptions of messaging. As Rachel Maddow often says, "Watch what they do, not what they say."

Secondly, can anyone else recall Harris' campaign-era stance on how well they had actually governed?

For starters, you posted a tweet from 2022 in response to this specific claim: "'Trans rights activism' wasn't part of the Harris campaign or platform." It's not my fault if you don't understand what words mean or how calendars work.

Secondly, you have zero explanation that isn't a bad faith convolution for why a pro-trans text from 2022 didn't negatively impact the Democrats in the 2022 election but somehow did in the election two years later.

 

[Random]

No, it was the propaganda surrounding trans issues that turned those voters off, because a) the Harris campaign didn't mention trans issues in the 2024 election cycle and b) Harris did explicitly mention support for trans rights in the run-up to the 2022 election and voters showed up and delivered Democrats a historically impressive showing,

It is very baffling to Democratic leadership. When they support Liberal policies, Liberals show up and vote Democrat. When they do not support Liberal policies, Liberals do not show up and vote Democrat. It's not supposed to be that way! How are Democrats supposed to get those Conservative voters if they have to keep appealing to Liberals?

 

[theprestige]

To sum up:

Openly talking about trans rights in 2022 = No anti-trans backlash during the 2022 election.
Not talking about trans rights in 2024 = Huge anti-trans backlash during the 2024 election.

There was a major shift in public perception of trans privileges in public policy, between 2022 and 2024, as dissenters began to speak more openly, and more and more of the insanity and the abuses came to light.

The fact that she let her 2022 remarks stand, rather than updating them in 2024, probably didn't help her with left-leaning voters who were concerned about trans privileges in public policy, who only had her 2022 words, and the government's actions since, to go by.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Those who are wrapped up in a cause sometimes lack the perspective to realize that not everybody is as interested in their cause as they are.

 

[Random]

There was a major shift in public perception of trans privileges in public policy, between 2022 and 2024, as dissenters began to speak more openly, and more and more of the insanity and the abuses came to light.

The fact that she let her 2022 remarks stand, rather than updating them in 2024, probably didn't help her with left-leaning voters who were concerned about trans privileges in public policy, who only had her 2022 words, and the government's actions since, to go by.

But that shift in public perception was manufactured by an orchestrated campaign of Republican lies and fearmongering. The answer to that sort of thing cannot be to allow lies to stand and just abandon a segment of your voting base like Harris did, no matter how small the group in question. That just invites more attacks against other groups of your supporters.

 

[theprestige]

No, it was the propaganda surrounding trans issues that turned those voters off

It isn't propaganda if it's true. Men really were competing and winning in women's sports, at all levels, permitted by federal policy (and state policy, and school district policy). The medical community really was lying about the scientific basis for trans-affirming care, and really was lying about the reversibility of puberty blockers. And everyone knew which party was on the side of trans privileges in public policy. Harris couldn't hide this from voters by keeping her mouth shut, any more than John Cena can disappear from view by holding his hand in front of his face.

 

[theprestige]

But that shift in public perception was manufactured by an orchestrated campaign of Republican lies and fearmongering.

Again, these were not lies. The fear was - and is - justified. Like I just told johnny karate, men really were competing and winning in women's sports, at all levels, permitted by federal policy (and state policy, and school district policy). The medical community really was lying about the scientific basis for trans-affirming care, and really was lying about the reversibility of puberty blockers. And everyone knew which party was on the side of trans privileges in public policy. Harris couldn't hide this from voters by keeping her mouth shut, any more than John Cena can disappear from view by holding his hand in front of his face.

And it turns out there are a lot of left-leaning people in the world who draw the line at this kind of nonsense.

I guess we can add "vilify and disown any progressives who have valid concerns about trans privileges in public policy" to the list of things Democrats did wrong.

 

[ahhell]

Again, these were not lies. The fear was - and is - justified. Like I just told johnny karate, men really were competing and winning in women's sports, at all levels, permitted by federal policy (and state policy, and school district policy). The medical community really was lying about the scientific basis for trans-affirming care, and really was lying about the reversibility of puberty blockers. And everyone knew which party was on the side of trans privileges in public policy. Harris couldn't hide this from voters by keeping her mouth shut, any more than John Cena can disappear from view by holding his hand in front of his face.

And it turns out there are a lot of left-leaning people in the world who draw the line at this kind of nonsense.

I guess we can add "vilify and disown any progressives who have valid concerns about trans privileges in public policy" to the list of things Democrats did wrong.

I don't think this is a thing Democrats did wrong, but I do think it's a thing progressives get wrong. The... demand for ideological purity. Your cause is, take your pick.....Gaza so you get together a group but find out some of them don't like, I don't know, transwomen self IDing and being sent to women's prison, out they go. It makes coalition building basically impossible.

The other thing of course is the apparent certainty that the only reasons someone could disagree with me is that they believe lies or are bad people. There is a lack of intellectual humility on the left that I find disconcerting. Same on the right but I don't currently find myself hoping the right will win elections.

 

[d4m10n]

For starters, you posted a tweet from 2022 in response to this specific claim: "'Trans rights activism' wasn't part of the Harris campaign or platform."

If you believe that "What did the Democrats do wrong?" can reasonably be limited to campaigning and platform messaging, that's on you.

People who don't share that belief—because we understand that voters grade incumbents on performance—shouldn't be expected to play along.

Secondly, you have zero explanation that isn't a bad faith convolution for why a pro-trans text from 2022 didn't negatively impact the Democrats in the 2022 election but somehow did in the election two years later.

You are focusing on the tweet itself rather than the consistent message that the Democratic Party stands behind replacing single-sex spaces, services, and leagues with something new based on gender identity. That problem wasn't discussed very much in the 2022 cycle, but it was central to the closing message of the Trump campaign, it was most effective with swing voters, and the Harris campaign did not hit back with solid counter-messaging.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

If you believe that "What did the Democrats do wrong?" can reasonably be limited to campaigning and platform messaging, that's on you.

You made a claim specifically about Harris' campaigning and platform. Your example was not relevant to that claim. Now that johnny karate has pointed this out, you want to talk about something else.

 

[d4m10n]

You made a claim specifically about Harris' campaigning and platform.

No, I made a claim responsive to the OP rather than pretending we can narrowly focus on the campaign. I don't believe the campaign is all that matters to voters, and I'm surprised to find that anyone does. If Harris failed to message on LGBTQ rights, voters would be reasonable to simply look at her record on those issues.

That said, Harris' platform was substantively indistinguishable from the Biden platform, on this issue as almost on all others. There is no evidence Harris backed away from any of the civil rights claims made the incumbent administration (such as the necessity of the Equality Act mentioned in the 2022 tweet) regardless of the marginalized identity under discussion.

 

[Random]

No, I made a claim responsive to the OP rather than pretending we can narrowly focus on the campaign. I don't believe the campaign is all that matters to voters, and I'm surprised to find that anyone does. If Harris failed to message on LGBTQ rights,
voters would be reasonable to simply look at her record on those issues.
That said, Harris' platform was substantively indistinguishable from the Biden platform, on this issue as almost on all others. There is no evidence Harris backed away from any of the civil rights claims made the incumbent administration (such as the necessity of the Equality Act mentioned in the 2022 tweet) regardless of the marginalized identity under discussion.

If there is one thing we can say about the Trump era, it has shown that voters cannot be expected to be reasonable. "Inflation has been too high under Biden and Harris even though they have brought inflation down! I'm gonna vote for Trump and his blatantly inflationary policies because I hate inflation!" What is the Democratic counter to that supposed to be? Was that actually what they were voting for? Or were they voting for something else they didn't want to admit to?

 

[johnny karate]

It isn't propaganda if it's true. Men really were competing and winning in women's sports, at all levels, permitted by federal policy (and state policy, and school district policy). The medical community really was lying about the scientific basis for trans-affirming care, and really was lying about the reversibility of puberty blockers. And everyone knew which party was on the side of trans privileges in public policy. Harris couldn't hide this from voters by keeping her mouth shut, any more than John Cena can disappear from view by holding his hand in front of his face.

And yet in 2022, no cared about this Very Important Issue, at least not enough to negatively impact Democrats in the midterms when one of their party leaders openly supported trans rights.

But somehow, two years later, it became a deciding factor in a presidential election.

As you already admitted, public perception shifted during those two years.

You have one more dot to connect.

 

[d4m10n]

But somehow, two years later, it became a deciding factor in a presidential election.

If only someone would post links about the multimillion dollar ad buy which explains this part.

 

[Random]

If only someone would post links about the multimillion dollar ad buy which explains this part.

Who needs ad buys when you have Fox News? The GOP has a multi-billion-dollar media empire designed to tell millions of Americans what they think they believe today. They don't even need to collude with each other since they all have the same goal and know it.

 

[johnny karate]

If you believe that "What did the Democrats do wrong?" can reasonably be limited to campaigning and platform messaging, that's on you.

People who don't share that belief—because we understand that voters grade incumbents on performance—shouldn't be expected to play along.

None of this has anything to do with you responding with a nonsequitur in response to a specific claim I made.

And yeah, voters totally examined past performances of the candidates in the 2024 election. Perfectly explains how Trump got re-elected. Because of what a great job he did last time. Brilliant analysis.

You are focusing on the tweet itself rather than the consistent message that the Democratic Party stands behind replacing single-sex spaces, services, and leagues with something new based on gender identity. That problem wasn't discussed very much in the 2022 cycle, but it was central to the closing message of the Trump campaign, it was most effective with swing voters, and the Harris campaign did not hit back with solid counter-messaging.

It takes less words to make the same point by just saying “Republicans ran a propaganda campaign that millions of people fell for”.

 

[johnny karate]

If only someone would post links about the multimillion dollar ad buy which explains this part.

Yeah, the “somehow” was ironic. I’m aware of the propaganda campaign. I’ve actually mentioned it once or twice.

 

[johnny karate]

Again, these were not lies. The fear was - and is - justified. Like I just told johnny karate, men really were competing and winning in women's sports, at all levels, permitted by federal policy (and state policy, and school district policy). The medical community really was lying about the scientific basis for trans-affirming care, and really was lying about the reversibility of puberty blockers. And everyone knew which party was on the side of trans privileges in public policy. Harris couldn't hide this from voters by keeping her mouth shut, any more than John Cena can disappear from view by holding his hand in front of his face.

And it turns out there are a lot of left-leaning people in the world who draw the line at this kind of nonsense.

I guess we can add "vilify and disown any progressives who have valid concerns about trans privileges in public policy" to the list of things Democrats did wrong.

The more you keep insisting that the party who put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health is the pro-science party, the more I will never stop laughing.