What about this crop circle?

[Limbo]

Yes, but another way to explain why telepaths and psychics claim to have seen crop circle designs before they appear is that telepaths and psychics lie about their powers. Given the very conflicting hypotheses, it seems to me that the only reasonable is to look at the evidence. The evidence says that telepaths and psychics cannot perform their alleged powers under controlled conditions. Before I am labeled as a close-minded skeptic, I will say that if psychics were able to perform under controlled conditions, I would completely change my point of view and acknowledge the existence of these powers which exceed our current understanding.

So my ultimate question is why do you believe the people who claim that they have seen crop circle designs before they are made.

Because I've seen things before they happened, and then watched them happen right before my eyes. I've experienced things that shouldn't be.

I don't believe the people who claim that they have seen crop circle designs before they are made. Rather, I realize that in principle it's possible (because I've had similar experience), maybe probable and so I don't rule it out.

Your whole problem with the elusive capricious tricky nature of psi is all about the sheep-goat effect. I recommend that you look into it further. I think that effect is present in the crop circle phenomenon.

 

[Akhenaten]

Because I've seen things before they happened, and then watched them happen right before my eyes. I've seen things that shouldn't be.

Get help. There's something wrong with your eyes.

I don't believe the people who claim that they have seen crop circle designs before they are made. Rather, I realize that in principle it's possible (because I've had similar experience), maybe probable and so I don't rule it out.

On second thoughts, maybe it's not your eyes.

Your whole problem with the elusive capricious tricky nature of psi is all about the sheep-goat effect. I recommend that you look into it further. I think that effect is present in the crop circle phenomenon.

my bolding


Nonsense. The nature of psi is non-existence.

 

[anduin]

Crop circles are not a new art form. The earliest mention of a crop circle dates back to the 1500s. Crop circles are probably far older than that.

This is of course, completely rubbish. There is no such thing as mention of crop circles in early times. As has been pointed out, the only reference to an ancient crop circle is the Mowing Devil, which does not mention a circle at all, other than the oval nature of the wood carving. If you take this as a historical record, then you would have to agree also with the rest of the story about devils and curses.

The other possible mention is of curious circular shapes in the Surrey countryside after a storm. You will notice that it does not say that the patterns seemed man-made, on the contrary, the hypothesis seems to be that it was just a curious natural formation.

Other stories can be attributed to so-called fairy circles.

 

[EHocking]

...I don't believe the people who claim that they have seen crop circle designs before they are made.

I wouldn't either, as bleevers in this game tend to bend the truth.

A Crop Circle Maker Speaks

In an interview with Matt, here’s what he told me:

...“The synchronistic events which happen each year in the unfolding designs that the Circle makers come out with are often remarked as being too much of a coincidence. Circle designs have been repeated in different parts of the country by teams who didn’t share designs beforehand.

Unsupported by evidence.
The interview was in 2007. The "International Crop Circle Database" website which documents locations and discusses the geometry with photos and diagrams of crop circles in the UK was created in 1993.

There have even been teams who have gone out on the same night to the same field, made designs, not knowing the other team was present, and their designs have had similarities.

This is simply untrue. Of the 1826 crop circles in the above database, no two formations made in tthe same field resemble each other in design in any way.

The chances of this happening, without planning, are slim; so it would appear that something paranormal is working for the Circle makers.

False conclusion from misrepresented evidence. Par for the course.

Rather, I realize that in principle it's possible (because I've had similar experience), maybe probable and so I don't rule it out.

You are basing this belief on misrepresented evidence, you may wish to reappraise your sources and therefore your belief.

Your whole problem with the elusive capricious tricky nature of psi is all about the sheep-goat effect. I recommend that you look into it further. I think that effect is present in the crop circle phenomenon.

I'd be interested if you could show some evidence that would convince any others here to consider the option.

 

[Fnord]

Because I've seen things before they happened...

.
Strong, the woo with this one is!

 

[EHocking]

Deja vu could explain much.

 

[I Ratant]

This is of course, completely rubbish. There is no such thing as mention of crop circles in early times. As has been pointed out, the only reference to an ancient crop circle is the Mowing Devil, which does not mention a circle at all, other than the oval nature of the wood carving. If you take this as a historical record, then you would have to agree also with the rest of the story about devils and curses.

The other possible mention is of curious circular shapes in the Surrey countryside after a storm. You will notice that it does not say that the patterns seemed man-made, on the contrary, the hypothesis seems to be that it was just a curious natural formation.

Other stories can be attributed to so-called fairy circles.

.
Detecting a crop circle requires an elevated vantage to observe it.
Until the airplane, these were few.
With the airplane, drunk collitch kids, media attention, we gets the plethora of circles and the amazing self-delusions of the cerealogists to amuse us.

 

[CORed]

How many seconds do you estimate this one took?

[qimg]http://davidpratt.info/crop/crop9708b.jpg[/qimg]

20

 

[Drewbot]

.
Detecting a crop circle requires an elevated vantage to observe it.

Unless you are the farmer of the crops in which the circle was made, wondering why you have no crops in that circle shaped clearing in your field.

 

[KingMerv00]

Limbo,

How can you tell the difference between a psychic crop circle and a non-psychic crop circle?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Deja vu could explain much.

And a lack of critical thinking skills.

 

[Limbo]

Hello limbo

Hello.

I didn’t say you did.

Ok, I'm just trying to show that associating me with an "ET" hypothesis would be wrong. I don't believe that biological ETs from another planet are involved.

The much vaunted ‘mowing devil’ woodcut dates from 1678 and no way definitively shows a beastie making a crop circle. I stand by my assertion that cc’s are a relatively modern medium for artists.

It could be that in the past cc's were a medium for shamans, witches, druids, etc...all of whom were artists of a sort. It could be that wherever simple circles appeared naturally, temples and shrines and crypts were built.

Firstly, I would take anything Mr Williams says with a pinch of salt, but that’s an opinion of mine and I trust I am not being defamatory in saying so. Having said that, what might be called ‘paranormal experiences’ in the fields are not uncommon in the world of circle-making. See the film The Circlemakers for some interesting anecdotes.

You must have missed the post where I link to that video. I've seen it twice. And it very much supports my case.

However, this wasn’t quite the point I was making. There’s a large contingent in croppiedom who appear to not want to accept human involvement – at any level – in the majority of crop circles.

I accept human involvement at EVERY level, because psi IS human, even when it's collective and unconscious. Any paranormal effects connected to crop circles or UFOs are caused by OUR collective all-too-human psi, not by autonomous biological aliens in spaceships.

 

[Akhenaten]

Limbo,

How can you tell the difference between a psychic crop circle and a non-psychic crop circle?

The psychic ones are all elusive, capricious, tricky and full of farm animals whilst the non-psychic ones just kind of sit there.

Your whole problem with the elusive capricious tricky nature of psi is all about the sheep-goat effect.

 

[fls]

Limbo,

How can you tell the difference between a psychic crop circle and a non-psychic crop circle?

I know the answer to this (I've had lots of conversations with Limbo - don't worry that I'll spoil your question, I'm on ignore). The non-psi crop circle is one where the maker denies any psi input in order to show that circles can be made without psi input. This distinction cannot be made a priori (i.e. it cannot be made by looking at the crop circle). Alternatively, they all have psi input, but some makers are unwilling to recognize this input because they are goats.

Linda

 

[Stray Cat]

I don't believe in alien races.

Shame that because it would have made an interesting picture, Some aliens having a race.

Crop circles are not a new art form. The earliest mention of a crop circle dates back to the 1500s. Crop circles are probably far older than that.

The Mowing Devil, dated 1678 is a religious piece of propaganda.
It tells the tale of a framer who has a dispute with his workers, who feel he is not paying them enough. They curse his field saying "Then let the Devil mow it", consequently, the farmer finds his field sabotaged.

Talking this in historic and social context, the pamphlet was produced at the height of paranoia regarding devil worship, cursing, hexing and other witchcraft associated activities. Also taking into account it occurred during what climate specialists call the 'little ice age' (1645-1715) where food was short due to constant crop failures, it is not unreasonable for the Church (who were responsible for printing and distributing the propaganda) to make a point of telling the lowly workers that it was best not to make deals with the Devil in order to ruin crops.

The reality of the story that the pamphlet tells is that some farm workers mowed half a field of barley before the dispute arose and then resigned after a dispute over pay. They walked off the job having harvested half the field, done half a day's work for no money at all.
it is therefore not unreasonable to wonder if those workers came back to the field that night and sabotaged the rest so that at least, the farmer would be out of pocket (remembering the curse they had given the farmer). Knowing as they would that any crop thought to have been interfered with by the devil would be destroyed immediately and could not be sold.

So tell us again why the Mowing Devil (that apparently most sceptics don't even know about!) has anything at all to do with crop circles?
On top of everything else, crop circles are not cut into the crop, they are flattened.

A Crop Circle Maker Speaks

"Previously at this blog I have commented on the Crop Circle-making activities of a good friend of mine in the UK named Matthew Williams. ... snipped to save space...

Ah, good old Mat Williams... always has been the one who wants to be at the center of the crop circle phenomenon. The only person ever to be arrested, charged and prosecuted in relation to making a crop circle.
Nice enough bloke (sometimes), he even has his own YouTube channel where he rants about crop circle stuff: http://www.youtube.com/user/truthseekers666
Plenty to go at there Limbo.

The questions you were asking me... ask him, he's sure to tell you, he just can't help himself...


... which may explain why he's the only person to be arrested, charged and prosecuted in relation to making a crop circle.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Ok, I'm just trying to show that associating me with an "ET" hypothesis would be wrong. I don't believe that biological ETs from another planet are involved.

The association is reasonable since you have said things such as:

Maybe. I'm not ruling it out. I have no first-hand crop circle experience, as I do with psi and "UFOs". So I'm not taking as strong a stance about crop circles as I do about psi. I think there is a connection between crop circles and psi, so sue me.

Here, you claimed to have first hand experience with "UFOs". You've also made statements about "missing time", so it's reasonable to infer that you have an abduction story or some such.

That's why I've suggested you start a thread about your PSI and UFO beliefs, so we can discuss them since you're unwilling to say what it is you believe about crop circles and why you believe it.

ETA: It seems that your belief is that crop circles and abduction stories (or other ET encounter stories) are the result of unconscious psi experience. So, what specifically do you believe happens, and what is the evidence to support your belief? (Last time you were asked for evidence, you cited a list of pseudo-science book titles. I hope you will answer more specifically.)

ETA: And the same goes for your precognition claims. What is your evidence? Did you record these visions of the future before they happened? If not, the most likely explanation is that you are misremembering the sequence of events or the details. (Maybe you had a vague dream, and after an event, you revised that vague dream to fit more closely, and now you have a vivid memory of that "precognitive" dream. If you believe in unconscious PSI powers, why not the unconscious ability to alter memories or confabulation?)

 

[Stray Cat]

You must have missed the post where I link to that video. I've seen it twice. And it very much supports my case.

Of course it supports your case... It was made by Matthew Williams.

I accept human involvement at EVERY level, because psi IS human. Any paranormal effects connected to crop circles or UFOs are caused by OUR collective all-too-human psi, not by autonomous biological aliens in spaceships.

Cool, now all you need to do is provide some evidence of these "paranormal effects connected to crop circles"
Somehow I doubt you'll be able to that (with the exception of some anecdotes, which as we should know by now, are not reliable, testable, repeatable or verifiable as evidence).

 

[Fnord]

Of course it supports your case... It was made by Matthew Williams.


Cool, now all you need to do is provide some evidence of these "paranormal effects connected to crop circles"
Somehow I doubt you'll be able to that (with the exception of some anecdotes, which as we should know by now, are not reliable, testable, repeatable or verifiable as evidence).

.
The plural of anecdote is not 'data', neither is it 'proof'.

Limbo has much to say and nothing to prove.

See the correlation?

 

[Stray Cat]

Well that's all cool, Limbo has just been kind enough to send me a PM to let me know that as I will not play his game, to his rules, he's put me on his (apparently really long) Ignore list.

Funny how those who claim to seek something don't actually want to hear about it.

It could almost be made into a movie

And of course, it wont stop me from adding to this thread because it was always going to be a waste of time trying to educate him anyway... But maybe other people (more open minded critical thinking) people can learn from some of what I have to offer.

Hey ho, on we go... Happy Pancake Day everyone.

 

[I Ratant]

Well that's all cool, Limbo has just been kind enough to send me a PM to let me know that as I will not play his game, to his rules, he's put me on his (apparently really long) Ignore list.

Funny how those who claim to seek something don't actually want to hear about it.
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Emoticons/lala.gif[/qimg]

It could almost be made into a movie

And of course, it wont stop me from adding to this thread because it was always going to be a waste of time trying to educate him anyway... But maybe other people (more open minded critical thinking) people can learn from some of what I have to offer.

Hey ho, on we go... Happy Pancake Day everyone.

.
Just how does this "ignore" work?