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What about this crop circle?

Stray Cat said:
You maybe think you're the first person to try and lead me down that road Limbo... It aint happening.

Now why not post some information that supports YOUR hypothesis?
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While I cannot support Limbo's hypothesis, I do not consider his or her request to be burdensome. Would you explain why you won't answer even these questions? We don't even know what country you are posting from. There really is no way for us to tie you to any crimes. Furthermore, for all we know, the statute of limitations has already passed on these largely minor transgressions.
 
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Ladewig said:
While I cannot support Limbo's hypothesis, I do not consider his or her request to be burdensome. Would you explain why you won't answer even these questions? We don't even know what country you are posting from. There really is no way for us to tie you to any crimes. Furthermore, for all we know, the statute of limitations has already passed on these largely minor transgressions.
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Apart from the legal issues (ip address can be logged/traced, but I'm not a CTer so that's not a primary worry). And apart from Rule 1 as quoted by Marduk, there is the ethical and traditional silence of circlemakers, which is part of the phillosophy behind the movement.
Put simply, they don't get into conversations about personal involvement.
The question at the moment is "How Many?" then that leads onto "which ones?" and then there'd be a long denial citing crop circle researchers BS to show how I must be telling lies.
So I stick to discussing the things that are testable, verifiable, repeatable and falsifiable.

Hope this clears that up.
 
Fnord said:
Hey, Limbo! I thought you were leaving!

Why are you still here?
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And that was the second time he left in a huff. (Oh wait--huffing. . maybe that's where these ideas come from?)

Meanwhile, if a bigoted medium was busted for fraud but then escaped, she would be a small-minded medium at large.
 
Stray Cat said:
Apart from the legal issues (ip address can be logged/traced, but I'm not a CTer so that's not a primary worry). And apart from Rule 1 as quoted by Marduk, there is the ethical and traditional silence of circlemakers, which is part of the phillosophy behind the movement.
Put simply, they don't get into conversations about personal involvement.
The question at the moment is "How Many?" then that leads onto "which ones?" and then there'd be a long denial citing crop circle researchers BS to show how I must be telling lies.
So I stick to discussing the things that are testable, verifiable, repeatable and falsifiable.

Hope this clears that up.
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Also, it's completely irrelevant to any of the arguments being made.
 
Stray Cat said:
Yeah... and what JoeTheJuggler said ^
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And on top of that, Limbo's asserting that he has as right to know is pretty much a guarantee that he won't get that bit of information--if for no other reason but to challenge his claim of a "right" to that information.

Limbo--contact your lawyer and sue Stray Cat. If you have a right to know, you should at least win a court order for him to release that information.
 
I'm not sure that the information I have is covered by the Freedom of Information Act.
But if it is, send in a request with your administration fee and I'll see what I can do to comply with the law.
 
One thing I find fascinating about crop circles, more so now than whether there’s evidence that they could be made by an unknown force, is what I see as a misanthropic tendency amongst some cc researchers and croppies when they are reluctant to accept that beautiful things could be the product of humankind.

This seems to reflect a modern trend apparent in many areas, from the neo-Malthusian streak of the fundamentalist Green movement (more people are bad) to New Agers believing in the return of a benevolent alien race to save Mankind from its sins.

Back in the Renaissance, beauty was celebrated. Art took the most painful of life experience and turned it into a force for positive change in the human psyche. Humans were seen as progressive, enlightened, the answer to the problems of the world. Now, when faced with a new art form, perhaps some people’s desire to believe in aliens stems from a collective guilt, imposed by this creeping anti-progressiveness in society, this sense that ‘people are bad and Nature is good’.

Just a thought…
 
23_Tauri said:
One thing I find fascinating about crop circles, more so now than whether there’s evidence that they could be made by an unknown force, is what I see as a misanthropic tendency amongst some cc researchers and croppies when they are reluctant to accept that beautiful things could be the product of humankind.

This seems to reflect a modern trend apparent in many areas, from the neo-Malthusian streak of the fundamentalist Green movement (more people are bad) to New Agers believing in the return of a benevolent alien race to save Mankind from its sins.
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I don't believe in alien races.

Back in the Renaissance, beauty was celebrated. Art took the most painful of life experience and turned it into a force for positive change in the human psyche. Humans were seen as progressive, enlightened, the answer to the problems of the world. Now, when faced with a new art form, perhaps some people’s desire to believe in aliens stems from a collective guilt, imposed by this creeping anti-progressiveness in society, this sense that ‘people are bad and Nature is good’.

Just a thought…
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Crop circles are not a new art form. The earliest mention of a crop circle dates back to the 1500s. Crop circles are probably far older than that.

A Crop Circle Maker Speaks

"Previously at this blog I have commented on the Crop Circle-making activities of a good friend of mine in the UK named Matthew Williams. As Matt’s views on the issue of Crop Circles have constantly been distorted by those who wish to see him as a mere “hoaxer,” I figured it was time to clarify for people what Matt really thinks about Crop Circles.

In an interview with Matt, here’s what he told me:

“I believe that the human Circle makers may be guided by a connection to a higher intelligence, a gestalt or group mind; and the symbols that are put down are deep-routed subconscious expressions. This would explain why some telepaths or psychics claim to have seen Crop Circle designs before they appear – because we are all dialed into the same group-mind ‘internet.’

“The synchronistic events which happen each year in the unfolding designs that the Circle makers come out with are often remarked as being too much of a coincidence. Circle designs have been repeated in different parts of the country by teams who didn’t share designs beforehand. There have even been teams who have gone out on the same night to the same field, made designs, not knowing the other team was present, and their designs have had similarities. The chances of this happening, without planning, are slim; so it would appear that something paranormal is working for the Circle makers.

“Why is it that Circles have power? I know that crop is a living medium. Unlike any other type of canvas that an artist may use, crop has a life-force energy which, when used on such a large scale, makes crops blend natural Earth-energy magic with human-energy magic. What Crop Circle makers may have rediscovered is the ancient art of natural magic – working with large emblems as part of the energy system of the Earth.”

Indeed, we should not dismiss the human circle-makers. People like Matt are not fakers or hoaxers. Rather, they are, perhaps ironically, the key to understanding the Crop Circle puzzle and its relationship to us."
 
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Cuddles said:
5 hours, 40 minutes later...


Worst drama queening ever.
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Do you frequently harass posters "moderator" Cuddles? I feel harassed. I'm talking to 23_Tauri in a civil manner, new blood who seems like a nice guy. I'm not talking to tight-lipped paranoid Stray Cat, who refuses to answer my questions. And I'm not talking to YOU, a "moderator" who has a typical skeptic offensive attitude that would have gotten you on my ignore list long ago if not your your protected mod status.

If you want to harass woo-woos, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. But then again I suspect that maybe sometimes certain people become mods partly so that they can harass woo-woos without being put on ignore lists. More fun that way, I wager.

"You can make any wild claims you like, and as long as you do so in a civil manner without rambling off topic and attacking people, you'll be left alone." -Cuddles

If that's true then leave me the hell alone "mod". My posts are civil, on topic, and are not attacks.
 
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Limbo said:
I don't believe in alien races.

Crop circles are not a new art form. The earliest mention of a crop circle dates back to the 1500s.
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Cite? Wiki places the first account as 1678
Crop circles are probably far older than that.
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Speculation without evidence.
A Crop Circle Maker Speaks

<blather>

Indeed, we should not dismiss the human circle-makers. People like Matt are not fakers or hoaxers. Rather, they are, perhaps ironically, the key to understanding the Crop Circle puzzle and its relationship to us."
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So all you have is one person's mystical belief. It's hardly a compelling argument for anything but a mundane explanation for anything paranormal about crop circle making.
 
Limbo said:
Do you frequently harass posters "moderator" Cuddles? I feel harassed. I'm talking to 23_Tauri in a civil manner, new blood who seems like a nice guy. I'm not talking to tight-lipped paranoid Stray Cat, who refuses to answer my questions. And I'm not talking to YOU, a "moderator" who has a typical skeptic offensive attitude that would have gotten you on my ignore list long ago if not your your protected mod status.

If you want to harass woo-woos, then maybe you shouldn't be a mod. But then again I suspect that maybe sometimes certain people become mods partly so that they can harass woo-woos without being put on ignore lists. More fun that way, I wager.
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Ah, so you ARE a drama queen!
 
Limbo said:
If that's true then leave me the hell alone "mod". My posts are civil, on topic, and are not attacks.
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And you have been left the hell alone "Limbo". You don't seriously think I was suggesting that no-one will ever question your claims do you? Taking a statement about the moderation of the forum and trying to apply it to members interacting makes about as much sense as taking statements of admitted crop circle makers as evidence of something paranormal going on. Oh, wait...
 
Limbo said:
This would explain why some telepaths or psychics claim to have seen Crop Circle designs before they appear – because we are all dialed into the same group-mind ‘internet.’
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Yes, but another way to explain why telepaths and psychics claim to have seen crop circle designs before they appear is that telepaths and psychics lie about their powers. Given the very conflicting hypotheses, it seems to me that the only reasonable approach is to look at the evidence. The evidence says that telepaths and psychics cannot perform their alleged powers under controlled conditions. Before I am labeled as a close-minded skeptic, I will say that if psychics were able to perform under controlled conditions, I would completely change my point of view and acknowledge the existence of these powers which exceed our current understanding.

So my ultimate question is why do you believe the people who claim that they have seen crop circle designs before they are made.
 
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Hello limbo
Limbo said:
I don't believe in alien races.
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I didn’t say you did.

Limbo said:
Crop circles are not a new art form. The earliest mention of a crop circle dates back to the 1500s. Crop circles are probably far older than that.
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The much vaunted ‘mowing devil’ woodcut dates from 1678 and no way definitively shows a beastie making a crop circle. I stand by my assertion that cc’s are a relatively modern medium for artists.

Limbo said:
A Crop Circle Maker Speaks

…..SNIP….
Rather, they are, perhaps ironically, the key to understanding the Crop Circle puzzle and its relationship to us."
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Firstly, I would take anything Mr Williams says with a pinch of salt, but that’s an opinion of mine and I trust I am not being defamatory in saying so. Having said that, what might be called ‘paranormal experiences’ in the fields are not uncommon in the world of circle-making. See the film The Circlemakers for some interesting anecdotes.

However, this wasn’t quite the point I was making. There’s a large contingent in croppiedom who appear to not want to accept human involvement – at any level – in the majority of crop circles. Is the desire to overlook the prosaic, despite evidence to the contrary, borne of a quasi-religious need to believe in a other-worldly higher power, because faith in the ingenuity and inherent goodness of humanity has been lost?

ps I'm a gal :)
 
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