'What about building 7'?

[thedopefishlives]

Is all the lying and willful misinterpreting of these accounds so MM can say that there were explosives going off inside WTC7?

He still hasn't accounted for the fact that it remained standing for over 7 hours.

You pretty much nailed it. This whole J&H red herring is a perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees - getting bogged down in the technical discussion of eyewitness reliability and competing timelines, overlooking the fact that WTC7 "exploded" early in the morning and did not collapse until late afternoon. Still waiting for an explanation of how that happened, MM.

 

[turingtest]

Is all the lying and willful misinterpreting of these accounds so MM can say that there were explosives going off inside WTC7?

He still hasn't accounted for the fact that it remained standing for over 7 hours.

As long as he can concentrate on the excruciating minutiae of one witness's statement, he's accomplished his goal of not having to take anything else into account. 9/11 was a whole event; MM's game is to make it all about one tiny little bit of that event as if it's the whole, and distract from the rest of it.

 

[GlennB]

Is all the lying and willful misinterpreting of these accounds so MM can say that there were explosives going off inside WTC7?

He still hasn't accounted for the fact that it remained standing for over 7 hours.

The CD plan went wrong in the morning but was fixed by the afternoon, according to him. The Jennings 'explosion' was part of the snafu, iirc. Fortunately the lengthy fires didn't hamper the smooth CD later.

 

[JayUtah]

Oh of course, because it would have seemed a lot less suspicious to have WTC 7 collapse in the morning when everyone could see it had been initially only moderately damaged. So the plan was not to let fires rage uncontrolled for several hours and cook the structure into an easily explained natural-looking failure.

 

[pgimeno]

You pretty much nailed it. This whole J&H red herring is a perfect example of not seeing the forest for the trees - getting bogged down in the technical discussion of eyewitness reliability and competing timelines, overlooking the fact that WTC7 "exploded" early in the morning and did not collapse until late afternoon. Still waiting for an explanation of how that happened, MM.

Well, one could argue that that explosion was necessary for the building to fall. But that leaves us with the question of why not to detonate it much later when there was no risk of being caught by people remaining in the building.

Which brings us back to the "incompetent genius" theories which plague 9/11 Truth explanations.

 

[NoahFence]

As long as he can concentrate on the excruciating minutiae of one witness's statement, he's accomplished his goal of not having to take anything else into account. 9/11 was a whole event; MM's game is to make it all about one tiny little bit of that event as if it's the whole, and distract from the rest of it.

Too bad for him that he and his microscopic, irrelevant band of liars are the only ones distracted by it. Everyone else with an IQ higher than a turnip and a shred of integrity solved 9/11 before the fires were out.

 

[NoahFence]

The CD plan went wrong in the morning but was fixed by the afternoon, according to him. The Jennings 'explosion' was part of the snafu, iirc. Fortunately the lengthy fires didn't hamper the smooth CD later.

I wonder how that conversation goes....


Patsie - "Hey Jonesie, looks like there's a couple of duds in numbah 7. You want I should go in and rig some more? Just make sure none of the firefighters or cops or reporters or citizens here see me going in - and nevermind the huge fires in there. I'll be OK."

 

[thedopefishlives]

I wonder how that conversation goes....


Patsie - "Hey Jonesie, looks like there's a couple of duds in numbah 7. You want I should go in and rig some more? Just make sure none of the firefighters or cops or reporters or citizens here see me going in - and nevermind the huge fires in there. I'll be OK."

MM is also among the group that doesn't think the fires in WTC7 were all that bad. So his patsies wouldn't have been worried at all about going into a building with a little fire in it in order to blow it up.

 

[GlennB]

Oh of course, because it would have seemed a lot less suspicious to have WTC 7 collapse in the morning when everyone could see it had been initially only moderately damaged. So the plan was not to let fires rage uncontrolled for several hours and cook the structure into an easily explained natural-looking failure.

(with a great big iirc, though it's all logged online and I'm happy to be corrected)

MM originally believed in the opportunistic Jowenko-esque CD theory. A CD team nipped in there, taking advantage of the damage and fires to achieve <something>.

When the 8-storeys of ~freefall notion, meaning "all vertical support was removed over 8 storeys" (he claims) broke, obviously that would no longer wash so he adopted the pre-planned multi-storey CD theory, with the fires acting as the perps' convenient excuse for the collapse.

I think it was here, after months or even years of debate, that MM finally conceded that those fires could never have been guaranteed - that the WTC1 impacts on WTC7 were, in fact, pretty freakish - and that this plan also wouldn't wash.

Last time he proposed anything resembling a theory to cover all this it was that WTC7 was 'supposed' to fall in the morning (no reason why it might was proposed) and the Jennings 'explosion' was a failure in the plan. I've mentioned this a number of times lately, and it still gets no response from him.

I don't know whether this debate with MM is actually quite sad, almost tantamount to bullying an idiot, and I don't really believe that many 9/11 CT lurkers pass this way any more to be swayed by the debate as they might have several years ago.

So, I'm cutting out of this particular exchange on pain of financial penalty. If you see me address or respond to MM I will donate £10 to the UK Retired Greyhound Trust (just because I love greyhounds) with documentary support of the donation, or forever be considered a welcher.

 

[DGM]

Oh of course, because it would have seemed a lot less suspicious to have WTC 7 collapse in the morning when everyone could see it had been initially only moderately damaged. So the plan was not to let fires rage uncontrolled for several hours and cook the structure into an easily explained natural-looking failure.

According to MM's time-line the "explosion" happened before the towers collapsed. That would have really looked odd.

Strange part is no one else reported explosions in that building although there were lots of people still around. It must be that furniture sound proofing again.

 

[jaydeehess]

According to MM's time-line the "explosion" happened before the towers collapsed. That would have really looked odd.

Strange part is no one else reported explosions in that building although there were lots of people still around. It must be that furniture sound proofing again.

Affecting only the eighth floor. Catalano reports that the collapse of WTC 2 caused great influx of dust and the building shook for him on the third floor. Because of this MM expects that collapse to have been much noticed and commented upon by J&H on the 23rd floor. However, since as far as MM is concerned, J&H experienced BOTH collapses while on the eighth floor he must expect them to have commented on the extreme influx of dust and the extreme shaking of the building, especially for the collapse of WTC1. That is of course, unless the cushy furnishings on the eighth floor caused a large damping effect.

 

[DGM]

However, since as far as MM is concerned, J&H experienced BOTH collapses while on the eighth floor he must expect them to have commented on the extreme influx of dust and the extreme shaking of the building, especially for the collapse of WTC1.

This was all while they were loitering on the 8th floor waiting to break a window (30 minutes +)?

 

[jaydeehess]

This was all while they were loitering on the 8th floor waiting to break a window (30 minutes +)?

Its a big building, takes 30 minutes to traverse a floor. Not like running down 17 flights of stairs. THAT takes only a couple of minutes.

 

[1stClassAlan]

9:03 - WTC2 struck. Jennings is unaware of this, possibly because he's in soundproofed EOM by now, or on an elevator trip.

Jeez! That must have been some kind of soundproofing!!! Didn't seismometers pick up the collapses in Pallisades at 2.1 Richter?

Years ago, I was digging a small tunnel 10ft in the earth under a concrete building - outside Concorde was doing practice take offs and landings for noise abatement trials - we didn't need to be told when she was coming because we could feel the thunder through our feet!!!

 

[DGM]

Jeez! That must have been some kind of soundproofing!!! Didn't seismometers pick up the collapses in Pallisades at 2.1 Richter?

Makes more sense then while they were just hanging around on the 8th floor.

The way I see it. Jennings and Hess got to the command center (for the second time) shortly before the collapse of the south tower. The lights flickered but didn't fail completely because the center had a UPS. After talking on the phone they were told to get out PDQ. They found the elevator to be down because the power outage from the south tower collapse scrambled the control. As they descended it got darker because they were on emergency light only. they got to the 6th landing when the north tower failed. Damage at that point killed the gen-sets and they went up to the 8th floor where Jennings broke a window soon after arriving. The fire fighters coming and going was because at that time, no one was sure WTC7 was not mortally wounded. If you remember around that time the FDNY was looking to send in surveyors to conferm if the building was leaning (I actually doubt it was to the extent someone could see it).

Fits better then them hurrying down from the command center only to experience an explosion and the chill-out on the 8th floor floor for 30+ minutes before deciding to do something (break a window).

 

[Miragememories]

Common sense, empirical testing, and Mr. Jenning's and Mr. Hess's own testimony, argue that it is unreasonable to accept those NIST claims.

There is no disagreement that Mr. Jennings was told in no uncertain terms that he had to evacuate immediately.

We have evidence from the senior 7 WTC building engineer that when 2 WTC collapsed, it caused far more than a brief light flicker.

At the time of his departure, Mr. Jennings did not report any power interruption.

We know the stairwell was close to the elevators and the floor was fully lit at the time that Mr. Jennings evacuated.

... and let's suppose they return to the service elevator they arrived in, a pretty natural course of action I'd say. How far from the S service elevator to the E stairwell?

On a finished, fully lit and signed floor, I don't think it would be a distant walk for men in a hurry.

Of course you are assuming they didn't try one of the regular elevators which would make more sense.

The NIST only said they were waiting at an elevator.

 

[DGM]

I don't think it would be a distant walk for men in a hurry.

Why do you think they were no longer in a hurry and just hung out on the 8th floor after the explosion for more than 30 minutes?

Your time-line doesn't work unless you accept the fact they did this.

 

[carlitos]

Bold blue text is truthier than plain blue text, yeah?

 

[000063]

Once you've committed yourself to magical thermite, you just make the thermite more magical.

When you eliminate the probable, whatever remains, however impossible, must be the Troof.

I wonder how that conversation goes....


Patsie - "Hey Jonesie, looks like there's a couple of duds in numbah 7. You want I should go in and rig some more? Just make sure none of the firefighters or cops or reporters or citizens here see me going in - and nevermind the huge fires in there. I'll be OK."

"Say, what would we have done if the Towers had missed?"
"Uh..."

 

[jaydeehess]

Affecting only the eighth floor. Catalano reports that the collapse of WTC 2 caused great influx of dust and the building shook for him on the third floor. Because of this MM expects that collapse to have been much noticed and commented upon by J&H on the 23rd floor. However, since as far as MM is concerned, J&H experienced BOTH collapses while on the eighth floor he must expect them to have commented on the extreme influx of dust and the extreme shaking of the building, especially for the collapse of WTC1. That is of course, unless the cushy furnishings on the eighth floor caused a large damping effect.

MM, why did Jennings have to imply the collapses from the actions of the FFs. You said that the collapse of WTC2 should have shook them up if it happened on the 23rd floor where it would not have resulted in any dust into #7. How come only 5 floors above Catalano did J&H not notice either the building shaking or a new heavy dust influx through broken windows in either collapse? Are you expecting that the eighth floor was immune to broken south windows, the dust cloud that caused Catalano to experience darkeness and choking dust, and was somehow isolated from being shaken as exterior columns were violently torn away?