'What about building 7'?

[GlennB]

"Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw er police cars on fire buses on fire. Uh. I looked one way. The building was there. [WTC7] I looked the other way. It was gone.

Given that those fires were almost certainly set by WTC1 debris this means he didn't break the window until after the second collapse. His testimony is a melodramatic mess, all in all.

 

[Miragememories]

If any credible evidence was presented I would have no problem excepting it. There simply is none.

My point all along.

I cant exactly agree with a conspiracy theory where it lacks critical corroborating evidence. And understandably most people reserve the right to point that out, regardless of whatever he may think of the viability of his evidence

I have a problem with self-serving blanket statements.

"No evidence", tells me right away that the poster has shut their mind.

 

[Miragememories]

Your effort of creative editing is noted, but I think I have to reject your claim:

This reminds me quite a lot of another statement Jennings made:

Including Mr. Jenning's complete statement in no way alters the conviction he conveyed about seeing the still standing WTC twin towers when he arrived at the 8th floor.

Note: Because I am out of town and limited to iPad communication, I have to keep my posts compact.

 

[Miragememories]

So Jennings and Hess wanted to attract attention by breaking out window(s) and calling to firefighters, correct?

At this time the towers were still standing and burning, right?

.
[..snipped as irrelevant..]

But for some reason they chose to go to the north side to break out windows.

[...more irrelevance...]

Why did they not increase their probability of attracting attention by breaking a south side window?

I'll tell you why, because the south side had suffered greater damage and was much dusty/smoky. IOW WTC1 had already come down and laid a beating on the south and west area of WTC7.

The stairwells are located towards the north side.

Successful communication was established from the NE corner broken window.

It was not necessary to proceed to the south side and break more windows.

 

[Miragememories]

The problem with Jennings' story is that it was almost certainly embellished over the years to make for more drama. Some of the things he says make no sense at all. For example, when the firemen tell him to run and he says he can't run. "Then crawl!" That's completely idiotic; there's a third option, called walking which he presumably was already doing.

Also, when he says that you can tell when you're stepping over bodies--how exactly? If you were stepping on bodies, I could understand it--it would be very uncertain footing. It certainly sounds like he's implying that he could tell by feel, not by sight, otherwise he would just have said "I saw bodies and we had to step over them."

I also wonder why he could not see the ground by then--this is supposedly after they got down to the ground floor, sometime shortly after noon. Surely by then the visibility had improved enough to see reasonably clearly. And if it hadn't how were the firemen leading him out? Probably with lights, right?

I agree that Mr. Jenning's statement suffers as a result of the timid interview method used.

He has a tendency to wander and present observations that he seems to believe will most interest those who see the video interview.

As a result, I believe he plays fast and loose with the chronology of some of the events he describes.

For this reason it is important to isolate those statements which are unequivocal, such as his insistence, when re-questioned, that when he arrived at the 8th floor, he looked, and both of the WTC twin towers were still standing.

 

[Animal]

Or its a light colored oval shaped object either on the inside of the window or on a wall next to and perpendicular to the window. Can you explain its very regular shape as opposed to the ragged, shattered shape of the broken glass on the N side?

Looks more like a reflection of clouds/smoke like you can see in the windows of the floor below. Window glass is not always perfectly flat and will often distort reflections. Like most other troofer claims, if something is not as they expect.......it becomes whatever fits their narrative......no other possibility is accepted.

 

[NoahFence]

How many of you are brave enough to consider the terrifying possibility that you are seriously wrong about what you believe happened on 9/11?

Every last one of us.

All we need is evidence. Hell, at this point it doesn't even have to be compelling evidence. Just evidence that can't be blown to bits by common sense and the intelligence of say, an 8 year old.

 

[NoahFence]

I have a problem with self-serving blanket statements.

"No evidence", tells me right away that the poster has shut their mind.

Are you ok?

"No evidence" means there is NO EVIDENCE.

Have I shut my mind if I say there's no evidence that Neil Armstrong shot JFK?


Because no CD at the WTC site is precicely as absurd as that statement.

 

[jaydeehess]

So Jennings and Hess wanted to attract attention by breaking out window(s) and calling to firefighters, correct?
At this time the towers were still standing and burning, right?
At this time there is no outward indication of damage to WTC7, right? No reason for firefighters to be paying any attention to WTC7 or be on the north side of that building, right?
Supposedly Jennings looked through to the south and saw the towers burning, right?

But for some reason they chose to go to the north side to break out windows.
The only place firefighters would be at this time, at least in great numbers and the area where the most spectators would be at this time, would be to the south of WTC7. Why did they not increase their probability of attracting attention by breaking a south side window?

I'll tell you why, because the south side had suffered greater damage and was much dusty/smoky. IOW WTC1 had already come down and laid a beating on the south and west area of WTC7.

The stairwells are located towards the north side.

Successful communication was established from the NE corner broken window.

It was not necessary to proceed to the south side and break more windows.

So now you parse my post to remove the whole point of my query.

Given that there would be more people and firefighters to the south of WTC 7 why would they go north? Because the stair exits are marginally closer to the north?

"Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw er police cars on fire buses on fire.

police cars and buses on fire BEFORE WTC 1 falls?

 

[tsig]

Pick me! Shortly after 9/11 I saw posters claiming , at that time, "bombs in the towers". I had not considered that and thought it very odd to have planes rammed into the towers and bombs planted there as well. I examined the so called evidence and found it not just wanting but actually in many cases simply ridiculous.
Later, I saw the much touted "smoking gun" of WTC 7 as a controlled demolition and have seen nothing substantial in the form of evidence, to support that claim either. Indeed some, such as 'smoke bombs' strikes me as ridiculous.
There is no audio evidence for explosions and even you, a supposed expert in a field I too am well versed in, cannot supply a coherent reason why there is this lack of sound on every single recording.
There is no evidence to support Jennings' timeline either, other than the apparent desire of some for it to be true. There is no evidence that any fire fighter was called upon to rescue people from WTC 7 while the towers stood and burned. There is no evidence to back one witnesses timeline, a timeline he assumed from what little he could see, from a windowless stairwell, and from a window on the north side of WTC 7, in which explosions occurred in WTC 7 prior to the collapse of either tower

MM's best eyewitness was in a windowless stairway, says a lot about the whole movement.

 

[000063]

I have a problem with self-serving blanket statements.

"No evidence", tells me right away that the poster has shut their mind.

Well, that's a nakedly hypocritical pair of statements. It also looks suspiciously like an excuse to ignore people who think you ain't got nothin'.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Since 2006 I have been convinced that WTC7 was a controlled demolition and the only argument against that belief usually boils down to incredulity.

Well, for sure, the idea that magical silent explosives were planted all over 24/7-occupied buildings by black ops magicians is a fantastically incredible hypothesis, but if you had even one video that sounded anything like a controlled demolition, I dare say the "truth movement" wouldn't be viewed as such a bizarre little internet cult.

 

[Gamolon]

You are wrong!

"No. What happened was - when we made it back to the 8th floor, --- as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked..."

MM, please explain the WHOLE quote then...

When we made it back to the eighth floor... As I told you earlier. Both buildings were standing because I looked... two... I looked one way, looked the other way, now there's nothing there.

 

[NoahFence]

MM, please explain the WHOLE quote then...

Wheneve MM ends a quote with ... you can bet the farm he's quote mining away the part that contradicts what he's trying to say.


100% of the time. Honestly optional.

 

[Africanus]

MM, please explain the WHOLE quote then...

He did it in his reply to my article.

ETA:

Including Mr. Jenning's complete statement in no way alters the conviction he conveyed about seeing the still standing WTC twin towers when he arrived at the 8th floor.

Please mark the part of the following statement, where Jennings said, that he saw the Twin Towers standing.

Barry Jennings: "No. What happened was - when we made it back to the 8th floor, as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked -- [he points] Two [pauses] I look one way, look the other way - now there's nothing there. When I got to the 6th floor there was an explosion that forced us back to the 8th floor. Both buildings were still standing. Keep in mind, I told you the fire department came and ran. They came twice. Why? Because building tower 1 fell and then tower 2 fell. And then when they came back, they came back, they came back all concerned like to get me the hell out of there. And, and they did. And we got out of there.I got into the building a little before nine, a little after nine. I didn't get out of there until like 1 PM."

Note: Because I am out of town and limited to iPad communication, I have to keep my posts compact.

I think everyone would be pleased, if you'd continue that when you are in town.

 

[JayUtah]

"No evidence", tells me right away that the poster has shut their mind.

Almost as badly as when someone says he has most of the posters in a thread on "ignore."

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I have a problem with self-serving blanket statements.

"No evidence", tells me right away that the poster has shut their mind.

If you want me to spend time giving you a detailed explanation of why I'm so critical feel free to request it of me. I have no problem spelling it out if you're actually interested, whether it's via PM, another site or whatever... but I've stated those reasons clearly enough and if you choose to not address those then there's not much to complain about when I reserve the right to remain critical of your conclusions.

Otherwise, Most people have at some point requested you to provide supplementary evidence to shore up the weak witness testimony that you're relying so heavily on. Considering that you've refused or outright ignored the vast majority of those requests I consider the "you have no evidence" conclusion and criticism that follows to be more than justified, until I see otherwise. That you may be offended or bothered that people would ask for corroborating evidence to support what you claim the witnesses indicate is frankly of no concern to me, let alone your opinion of my conclusions that follows... Sorry

 

[Miragememories]

So now you parse my post to remove the whole point of my query.

Given that there would be more people and firefighters to the south of WTC 7 why would they go north? Because the stair exits are marginally closer to the north?

police cars and buses on fire BEFORE WTC 1 falls?

I replied to the part of your post that was not based on idle speculation.

Based on Mr. Jenning's statement, it wasn't until their 3rd appearance that the firefighters appeared in significant numbers (10 arrived after WTC1 collapsed).

As I pointed out in another post, Mr. Jennings frequently strayed from the chronology of events in an obvious attempt to highlight what he experienced for the camera record.

Unfortunately the interviewers allowed him this freedom which at times made his re-telling somewhat confusing for the viewer.

So, I believe his statements were truthful but not always presented in the order that they happened.

At any rate, you stubbornly ignore my reply that explained why it was reasonable for Mr. Jennings to have broken windows close to the stairwell exit.

I am quite sure that if those first broken windows had failed to bring rescuers into view, he would have continued around the building perimeter breaking windows until he successfully contacted help.

 

[jaydeehess]

OK MM, I'll consider I'm wrong - Check this out:

[qimg]http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff387/AJM8125/WTC7EF.jpg[/qimg]

That's a much sharper and better angle of what you claim to be the 2nd broken window and you know what? It does indeed look like another broken window and until someone proves me wrong then that's exactly what I'm saying it is.

.......
But getting back to your 2nd broken window - doesn't change a bloody thing. The overwhelming evidence shows that Jennings and Hess were on the 6th floor (or lost in the transfer corridor, which is my belief) when WTC 1 collapsed on them. Both towers were down when you claim your hero was single handedly destroying the glazing on whatever side of WTC7 you deem necessary to keep livin the dream.

There's been absolutely zero compelling evidence to the contrary.

Yes I agree, this image more closely resembles a broken window.
See MM, that's how its done.

I mean its still not fully convincing that this is a window that Jennings broke and looked through., for a few reasons.

First of all, although it does more resemble a broken glass, its still quite a regular shape.
Second, this picture is from much later in the day. If it is a broken window, when did it break?

,,, and of course even if Jennings broke it you still have to address the matter of why people trapped in a supposedly undamaged WTC7 was apparently not all that surprising/interesting/suspicious to the firefighters, or why there were burning cars and buses on the street when Jennings looked out a window. Why would there be burning cars north or east of this WTC7 ? Neither crash into the towers would have sent much, if any, burning debris in these areas.
"Once I broke out the windows, I could see outside below me. I saw er police cars on fire buses on fire. "

Beyond that there is still the utter lack of explosions in WTC7 reported by any other witness in WTC7 before the towers fell, nor is there documentary audio tracks indicating explosions when the structure did collapse and your excuses for that are very very weak.

 

[Miragememories]

Please mark the part of the following statement, where Jennings said, that he saw the Twin Towers )

What part of that quote where Mr. Jennings clearly said that upon arriving at the 8th floor, he knew the buildings were still standing because he looked, do you not understand?