'What about building 7'?

[jaydeehess]

From NISTNCSTAR1-8, "Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building."

Well that explains how, later, the FDNY managed to send FFs through the building and assess the structure.

Its apparent that the east stairwell was impassable to Jennings and Hess due to smoke and dust.

 

[TJM]

??

Confused? Allow me to clarify.

Either they came down the stairs or they didn't.

It's rather simple - with two "blown out stairwells" they must've used elevators. There was no ladder rescue - Barry says he left from the lobby and I'm quite certain Barry would've included a ladder descent in his epic tale.

When you think about, Barry doesn't really say anything about his trip to the lobby does he. Might be because with lights and ventilation, Barry and Mike unceremoniously and unremarkably made it down to the lobby.

Now go ahead and type "blown out stairwells" six more times. Let's see if it gets any traction this time.

Lol.

 

[jaydeehess]

From NISTNCSTAR1-8, "Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building."​

The NIST story above makes it appear that at one stairwell, there was no blockage other than smoke.

This is in direct conflict with the live interview with one of Mr. Jenning's rescuers



There is absolutely no credible reason to doubt both Mr. Jenning's and Mr. Hess's accounts about the stairwell being inaccessible.

Their personal stories make it obvious that they had no wish to remain in WTC7 if they could escape.

Since it seems hardly likely that any elevators were made operational, the most likely process involved the rescuers clearing the obstruction from the other stairwell or using a ladder.[/color]

I fail to recall anyone saying they doubted that both stairwells were impassable. Its the reason for impassability that is in contention with you claiming that both of them suffered a large explosion before either of the towers came down, whereas others readily admit that the west stairwell may have suffered physical damage when WTC1 came down and that they both would have become smoky/dusty at the collapse of each tower. In fact Hess mentioned that the smoke got worse at the time the lights went out and they could no longer continue down the stairs. It got worse implies it was smoky before that incident. From fires occurring 800 feet up in buildings over 500 feet away?

Furthermore while you continue to harp on Jennings having said it was an explosion, Hess unequivocably says there was no explosion. So at the very best we know that the notion of an explosion is not substantiated by these witness statements let alone the fact that you wish/fantasize that the explosion took place well prior to either tower collapsing, and that this completely blocked the stairwells, all despite the fact that no firefighter has ever backed this claim up. No firefighter has ever stated that the eastern stairs were blocked by debris such as to make them impassable. What we do have however is that the stairs were full of smoke and dust, which would very much make them impassable to a human without a mask and air supply, especially in the dark.

 

[jaydeehess]

From NISTNCSTAR1-8, "Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building."​

I have not found any details regarding the actual means by which Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were rescued.

Um,,,, yeah in fact you did find some details by which they were rescued. I'll go out on a limb and guess that the above implies that the firefighters cleared smoke and dust from the air in the stairwell, made contact with J&H, and escorted them to the stairs and down them and out of the building. Its my own take on the matter though, I readily admit that.

Some details are missing, for instance we don't know if they walked, ran or skipped down the stairs, nor do we know if they took them one at a time or in large multiple steps, or left foot leading. We don't know if the firefighters engaged in political debate with the pair as they made their descent. Such details seem to have been lost to history.

 

[Animal]

Um,,,, yeah in fact you did find some details by which they were rescued. I'll go out on a limb and guess that the above implies that the firefighters cleared smoke and dust from the air in the stairwell, made contact with J&H, and escorted them to the stairs and down them and out of the building. Its my own take on the matter though, I readily admit that.

Some details are missing, for instance we don't know if they walked, ran or skipped down the stairs, nor do we know if they took them one at a time or in large multiple steps, or left foot leading. We don't know if the firefighters engaged in political debate with the pair as they made their descent. Such details seem to have been lost to history.

And those missing facts are the ones troofers must have. Those missing facts indicate a conspiracy and therefore the only way that the buildiing could have collapsed was by explosive nano thermite. The NIST must prove the two skipped down the stairs......without proof.....they confirm it was an inside jobby job.

 

[Gamolon]

hook and ladders can go pretty high... maybe?

Jennings stated in a video interview that they (Jennings, Hess, firefighters) came out into the lobby and then exited, through a hole in the wall, to safety.

 

[Gamolon]

Jennings also states in the video interview that when he went from the 8th floor to the 6th, experienced an explosion, the landing gave way beneath him, and then he went back to the 8th floor, that he saw both towers still standing.

He also states that they were on the north side of WTC7.

How could he see both towers looking out from the north side of WTC7?

 

[jaydeehess]

Jennings also states in the video interview that when he went from the 8th floor to the 6th, experienced an explosion, the landing gave way beneath him, and then he went back to the 8th floor, that he saw both towers still standing.

He also states that they were on the north side of WTC7.

How could he see both towers looking out from the north side of WTC7?

He peeked?
Seriously,IIRC, MM says that since they were at the north east corner they could have seen out a east side window.

 

[TJM]

He peeked?
Seriously,IIRC, MM says that since they were at the north east corner they could have seen out a east side window.

Hey, thanks for reminding me about this beautiful exchange. This is the level of integrity were dealing with here. Ol' MM probably thought nobody caught this - I'm sure most did but figured it par for the course:

WTC2 can be seen by looking out from any broken window on the east side of WTC7 (Barry broke several windows).

Yeah, looks like ol' Barry went to town on that east side. I mean lookit all them smashed windows. He had to have some kind of help, I think. That pole that saved his life? I wonder if he took it with him and used it to bust all that glass.

The lack of complete photo coverage of the 8th floor windows means you have no evidence that disproves what Barry Jennings claimed he did. There was no obvious motive for Barry to lie about his actions.

Wowzer - Lookit them goalposts go!

 

[jaydeehess]

Whoops even MM admits that at best Jennings coulda, maybe, have see only WTC2 yet somehow he saw both towers fall?

 

[Africanus]

Whoops even MM admits that at best Jennings coulda, maybe, have see only WTC2 yet somehow he saw both towers fall?

Well, in fact, Jennings didn't see any of the towers collapse:

They came-to the window and they said They started yelling "do not do that it won't hold you." And then they ran away. See, I didn't know what was going on. That's when one the first tower fell."

"When they started running the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that. Then I saw them come back. Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces."

 

[jaydeehess]

Well, in fact, Jennings didn't see any of the towers collapse:

oh indeed. I was by no means agreeing with MM. there are few things about 9/11, other than the date, that I and MM would agree on.

 

[DGM]

Well, in fact, Jennings didn't see any of the towers collapse:

They came-to the window and they said They started yelling "do not do that it won't hold you." And then they ran away. See, I didn't know what was going on. That's when one the first tower fell."

"When they started running the first tower was coming down. I had no way of knowing that. Then I saw them come back. Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces."

In reality, this was one of the many times firefighters were pulled back in fear of other collapses. Both towers had already collapse before this.

 

[Miragememories]

Jennings also states in the video interview that when he went from the 8th floor to the 6th, experienced an explosion, the landing gave way beneath him, and then he went back to the 8th floor, that he saw both towers still standing.

He also states that they were on the north side of WTC7.

How could he see both towers looking out from the north side of WTC7?

From NIST_NCSTAR_1-9_Vol1_cs_for_public_comment.pdf

"The two men went back to the 8th floor, broke out two windows, and called for help."

NE Corner broken window.

Note the 2nd broken window on the east side, same floor.

It goes without saying that Mr. Jennings could have seen WTC2 by looking out from the east side.

From inside WTC7, any window view on the south side would have revealed both WTC2 and WTC1.

Just because Mr. Jennings was trapped on the 8th floor does not mean he was trapped in that NE corner office.

 

[jaydeehess]

Well other than his saying he "had no way of knowing that". Its clear he was guessing at why the FFs left.
Let's see, the stairwells are full of dust and smoke so we can assume that the floors had some as well. These guys want out of the building.
They would probably prefer to stay at the window for better air and facing the larger street where there's a greater chance of hailing someone. The south side would have more dust and smoke and there is absolutely nothing in either Jennings or Hess's accounts to suggest they went to the south. When the exited the stairwell they'd have been moving towards whatever direction looked less dusty/smoky.

That's my guess and its, IMHO, at least as good as your guesses, MM.

 

[jaydeehess]

Hess states unequivocally, no explosion!

 

[jaydeehess]

So how's the search for excuses why explosive sounds were not recorded on any media on 9/11 whereas there is a plethora of examples of this in recordings of real demolitions?

 

[DGM]

Hess states unequivocally, no explosion!

He also said he could not see the towers from where they were.

Doesn't mater though, they weren't there at that time if they could see in that direction.

 

[Miragememories]

Hess states unequivocally, no explosion!

This is what he said while his memory was fresh (~2 hours after the event).

From Interview with Frank Ucciardo, Channel 9 News:

"I was up in the Emergency Management Center on the 23rd floor..and when all the power went out in the building..ahh..another gentlemen [Mr. Jennings] and I walked down to the 8th floor where there was an explosion..and we'd been trapped on the 8th floor with smoke, thick smoke all around us for about an hour and a half. But the New York Fire Dept., as terrific as they are just came and got us out."

8 years later his recollection for the BBC was 'adjusted' to be more in line with the OCT.

Even then, he wasn't unequivocal as he stated he might have heard a basement explosion.

 

[carlitos]

the OCT.