We left our church

[Brown]

The thing that vexes me most is that tythes are supposed to be a human affair, without divine justification.

I have observed some well-informed ministers (such as Stuart Briscoe) speak or write intelligently on the subject of offerings. If memory serves, 1 Corinthians 16 touches upon offerings for the service of the Lord.

One commentary (possibly by the late Steve Allen) suggested that some Biblical requirements about offerings were deliberately introduced into scripture to deter people from screwing the priests. If people had to give, say, ten percent of their goods to the priests, people would ordinarily give the priests the worst of their goods, such as the livestock that no one would want anyway. The attitude of most people would be, "Hey, we'll never be able to sell this scrawny chicken; let's give it to the priests." To deal with the flaw in human nature, the priests made sure that scripture specified that the stuff given to the priests had to be good stuff, and not the stuff that people would otherwise throw away.

 

[Zep]

Hi Ruby! Haven't posted here for a week or so now. How's your free Sunday going? Did you guys get to lie in for a bit, read the papers and have breakfast in bed perhaps, get attacked by rampaging children, etc, etc? Generally be happy with your life?

Zep

 

[a_unique_person]

Ruby,

it sounds like he was going broke, and so he knew he had to make some changes or go under.

Either way, it is unfortunate that this social gathering that used to give you comfort is now gone.

I would not hold it against him, as such, people do stupid things when they are desperate.

I would also try to fill in the social need this practice met with something else.

The whole question of having a 'church of athiests' has intrigued me for a few years. I was brought up a catholic, till I rejected it because I knew it was destroying me. At the same time, I knew that some of the Catholic culture was a force for good.

As you found with your church, the ability to go to a social gathering where you knew that people were expected to project compassion, tolerance and non-agression.

This is still an important part of human existance which won't be met by just staying at home, by yourselves, watching the TV or doing something else.

My question, I suppose is, where is the church for the athiests?

 

[Ruby]

Rev. Spong might convince you to give up going to church entirely.

Seriously.

I have read some of his works and have found them to be quite enlightening. He concluded that Christianity can be saved from backward thinking. After reading his books, though, I wasn't so sure about that.

I have to give the guy some credit for at least trying to address some of the most disturbing problems in the faith without insulting his readers' intelligence.

I did a search on him on the internet and was dismayed to have all these sites pop up speaking out very negatively about him. Naturally, they were all fundamentalist sites. I finally found one good site. It was a letter Spong sent to Jerry Falwell. It was really good.

 

[Ruby]

Hi Ruby! Haven't posted here for a week or so now. How's your free Sunday going? Did you guys get to lie in for a bit, read the papers and have breakfast in bed perhaps, get attacked by rampaging children, etc, etc? Generally be happy with your life?

Zep

We didn't have breakfast in bed or read the papers, but we did get attacked by our rampaging children!!!

 

[Ruby]

Ruby,

it sounds like he was going broke, and so he knew he had to make some changes or go under.

Either way, it is unfortunate that this social gathering that used to give you comfort is now gone.

I would not hold it against him, as such, people do stupid things when they are desperate.

I would also try to fill in the social need this practice met with something else.

The whole question of having a 'church of athiests' has intrigued me for a few years. I was brought up a catholic, till I rejected it because I knew it was destroying me. At the same time, I knew that some of the Catholic culture was a force for good.

As you found with your church, the ability to go to a social gathering where you knew that people were expected to project compassion, tolerance and non-agression.

This is still an important part of human existance which won't be met by just staying at home, by yourselves, watching the TV or doing something else.

My question, I suppose is, where is the church for the athiests?

I'm don't know where the church for the atheists exist!!!

I don't even know where any liberal churches exist around here....in East Texas.

I just see church as a place to go and get brainwashed and abused!!

 

[Zep]

We didn't have breakfast in bed or read the papers, but we did get attacked by our rampaging children!!!

Such is life the world over! Cherish them!

cheers!

 

[Dragonrock]

Here's a link to a story about a church in a city near, of all places, Dallas.

http://www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

And here's a link to their website.

http://church.freethought.org/

They claim to be the largest regular gathering of atheists in the world. I heard about them on the radio, they sing songs, the "preaching" is on various science subjects. They do all the things that theist churches do except worship.

 

[a_unique_person]

I'm don't know where the church for the atheists exist!!!

I don't even know where any liberal churches exist around here....in East Texas.

I just see church as a place to go and get brainwashed and abused!!

After getting brainwashed and abused, you are entitled to ask that question. However, it is a shame to throw out the good the church institution has found with the rubbish it has heaped upon us.

I do think that idea that we gather together to collect some good 'vibes' (for want of a better word), would be discarded too. I do not see why xians should have a monopoly on the idea.

 

[Ruby]

After getting brainwashed and abused, you are entitled to ask that question. However, it is a shame to throw out the good the church institution has found with the rubbish it has heaped upon us.

I do think that idea that we gather together to collect some good 'vibes' (for want of a better word), would be discarded too. I do not see why xians should have a monopoly on the idea.

I agree.

 

[thaiboxerken]

After getting brainwashed and abused, you are entitled to ask that question. However, it is a shame to throw out the good the church institution has found with the rubbish it has heaped upon us.

Why?

 

[Man of jade]

Sorry to hear about this Ruby... I wish you the best. I think theres a good chance that you can find a church in the bible belt that doesnt collect tithes, if you choose to keep searching.

P.S. ThaiBoxerKen, I was always curious why you had Reverend in your signitare title... Why is that?

 

[Ruby]

Sorry to hear about this Ruby... I wish you the best. I think theres a good chance that you can find a church in the bible belt that doesnt collect tithes, if you choose to keep searching.

/B]

Thanks!!!

 

[Finella]

I am very curious......fascinated really.....with your views and beliefs. Do you consider yourself Unitarian or a liberal Episcopalian?

Have you ever read anything by Bishop Spong? I am currently reading Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism. My hubby just finished reading it..so it's my turn now!!

My hubby was not convinced by everything Spong says, but he is being swayed by it...and is seeking more answers. Some concepts are easier to acccept than others. So far, I really like what I am reading.

First question: I consider myself a pretty liberal Episcopalian, which I think you'll find often encompasses a pretty Unitarian view of things. I recall going to a national conference once, and hearing an Episcopal college student telling us how he had to convince his chaplain to not put a statue of Buddha in the college chapel.

Second question: Yes, I've been recommending Spong a couple times on this board! I have Liberating the Gospels, which I have not been able to finish, but I have gotten a lot out of what I have read so far. I enjoy his thoughts very much, and although I can understand why he's not the most popular theologian on the planet, I do think his arguments (in this book, anyway) are quite scholarly and reasonable.

If, for some reason, you do think about checking out an Episcopal church in Texas (and I know you said you were burnt out on churches, so please don't think this is pressure), let me just warn you to stay away from any in the Diocese of Fort Worth. While the denomination in Texas is generally very vibrant, young and healthy, the Diocese of FW is extremely conservative; they actually are a "non-geographical" diocese, and claim to be holding the ECUSA to "Biblical standards." Thus they don't ordain women, are pretty much on the stoning-gays-isn't-a-bad-idea kinda path, etc. They threaten to leave the ECUSA about every general convention.

But a personal break from church is a good thing... I like my Sunday sleep-ins sometimes.

---,---'--{@
edited to clearly indicate sarcasm....

 

[Ruby]

First question: I consider myself a pretty liberal Episcopalian, which I think you'll find often encompasses a pretty Unitarian view of things. I recall going to a national conference once, and hearing an Episcopal college student telling us how he had to convince his chaplain to not put a statue of Buddha in the college chapel.

Second question: Yes, I've been recommending Spong a couple times on this board! I have Liberating the Gospels, which I have not been able to finish, but I have gotten a lot out of what I have read so far. I enjoy his thoughts very much, and although I can understand why he's not the most popular theologian on the planet, I do think his arguments (in this book, anyway) are quite scholarly and reasonable.

If, for some reason, you do think about checking out an Episcopal church in Texas (and I know you said you were burnt out on churches, so please don't think this is pressure), let me just warn you to stay away from any in the Diocese of Fort Worth. While the denomination in Texas is generally very vibrant, young and healthy, the Diocese of FW is extremely conservative; they actually are a "non-geographical" diocese, and claim to be holding the ECUSA to "Biblical standards." Thus they don't ordain women, are pretty much on the stoning-gays-isn't-a-bad-idea kinda path, etc. They threaten to leave the ECUSA about every general convention.

But a personal break from church is a good thing... I like my Sunday sleep-ins sometimes.

---,---'--{@
edited to clearly indicate sarcasm....

Thanks.

Ft. Worth is too far to worry about finding the wrong church there.

Most Episcopal churches where I live are very conservative, but there is one that is more liberal. I have been to it in the past, but not interested in going back. It's still too stiff and reserved for my liking.

As I've said before, I am not sure if I'll ever go back to another church...........but I am curious if any truly liberal churches exist in this area.

It sure is lonely leaving your church. I have felt so alone lately!

 

[Filippo Lippi]

I have felt so alone lately!

Don't. You're not alone, at the very least you have your family. And the people who left the church at the same time, what about them?


I know we're not real, but there are a lot of people on your side on here.

 

[a_unique_person]

Thanks.

Ft. Worth is too far to worry about finding the wrong church there.

Most Episcopal churches where I live are very conservative, but there is one that is more liberal. I have been to it in the past, but not interested in going back. It's still too stiff and reserved for my liking.

As I've said before, I am not sure if I'll ever go back to another church...........but I am curious if any truly liberal churches exist in this area.

It sure is lonely leaving your church. I have felt so alone lately!

Many people get out and about in amateur theatre, sports clubs, bridge. There is a lot more to do with other people besides bother the big guy in the sky.

Since you say you are shy, the hard part is just turning up. Once you get over the initial terror, it should all be pretty easy. Most people are pretty easy going and civilised once you get to know them.

 

[a_unique_person]

After getting brainwashed and abused, you are entitled to ask that question. However, it is a shame to throw out the good the church institution has found with the rubbish it has heaped upon us.

Why?

There is nothing wrong with getting people out on a Sunday morning to interact and meet as families. In fact, I think it is a good thing to do, and, as in Rubies case, one of the main reasons why they actually go to church.

Like I said, there are other things to do as a family or individual. Golf is pretty popular, and keeps you fit too, for example.

If you don't think you can play because you aren't any good at sport or have never tried it, you haven't seen the people out there just having a bash and enjoying the fresh air. Many of them are just as bad at it as me.

 

[thaiboxerken]

There is nothing wrong with getting people out on a Sunday morning to interact and meet as families. In fact, I think it is a good thing to do, and, as in Rubies case, one of the main reasons why they actually go to church.

Depends on the activities being performed. I think getting families together to perform superstitious rituals is wrong. I think teaching kids that they need to ask forgiveness for the "sin" of being born is wrong.

Using crack-cocaine makes the user feel really good for a bit of time, does that mean we shouldn't consider it wrong to give to children?

 

[ntech]

Ruby
I met a guy who was dirt poor and his pastor convinced him to give a portion of what little nothing he had.

Put that money in a college fund for that sweet little girl of yours.