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We left our church

Ruby

Graduate Poster
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Messages
1,042
I have loved and admired my Pastor due to his unique-ness and lack of "religiosity" and "charismania". He was one of a kind...that is, until he informed us that he had a special message from God that he was going to deliver to us all as a congregation. So, two weeks ago, on a Sunday morning, we sat and listened to this *message* from *God*.

Apparently, God has let him know that he has been doing things wrong as a Pastor and has built the church on the wrong foundation. He has not stressed paying tithes as he should, and not stressed people being involved in the church....amongst other things.

Plus, he has developed a little *secret society* of *elders* that he won't reveal to anyone.

We were very upset by this message. It was a total contradiction of everything he had ever preached in the past.

My hubby called our Pastor a few days after the message and told him that he could not believe he really heard from God and felt like it was just a convenient excuse. My hubby went on to say that he felt that Pastor was under some sort of strain.....which is why he is making changes in the church. Our Pastor did not take kindly to those words, although he was civil to my husband on the phone. Instead, my Pastor waited til the following Sunday service....this past Sunday, and blasted my hubby and me from the pulpit.

He did not use our names, but he brought up specific issues from his private phone conversation with my hubby and addressed them in church. He said such things as "If you don't like a word from God that I give, don't call to negotiate about it"......and ran on about not judging him in the flesh.

He said some more things to, but I can't recall everything. He knew he was safe to do that from the pulpit. It was unfair. It was a betrayal of trust.

He criticized and flat out mocked people for staying home sick. As I am absent a lot due to a painful irritable bowel and fibromyalgia, I felt he was speaking in part to me. He says the church is the place to come when you are sick...so you can get healed. If the church had ever demonstrated that it is a place where miraculous healing occurs, then perhaps more sick people would be there.

He now refuses to be questioned by anyone on this whole matter of all the changes he is making. He said how we should not even look at him as a man. We are to look at him on a Spiritual level. In other words, he is the god of that church, and we should obey.

He blamed everything on people who look in the flesh/natural and not in the Spiritual. It's only when we see in the spiritual that things are true and divine...according to him. It seems to me that looking in the *spiritual* means that you ignore facts and become brainwashed believing people are healed when they aren't, and believing that if you tithe and give above a tithe sometimes that God will *repay* you.

I used to feel safe in my church because I knew I was not judged or condemned if my social phobia or other physical ailments made it impossible for me to attend church. I had found a place where I could breathe and grow and make friends. This past Sunday morning I felt condemned. My hubby was livid, and nearly stood up and spoke out against what Pastor was saying.

So far, thirteen have left the church as a result of Pastor's new changes. Some of those people were dear friends with him, and were very active in the church. One couple he flat out refused to talk to. Another guy he had put in charge of leading Praise and worship and promised to let him in on his little *secret society/inner circle* of elders. When this guy asked a few questions about Pastor's new changes, our Pastor told him he could no longer lead Praise and worship, let alone be included in the *secret group*. This was quite a blow, and the guy and his wife left the church too.

Our church never has more than about thirty people present on Sunday mornings....it's very small. So, having thirteen leave really puts a dent in it. Having said that, our Pastor claimed this past Sunday that 90% of the congregation had spoken favorably about his *message from God*. That is such a crock of ◊◊◊◊!!

Our Pastor is also making up new convenant certificates for everyone to sign and keep. That means they are agreeing to pay tithes....even if it puts them in the poor house, and it means they will show up to all services, and be involved in certain minisitries. My Pastor believes that only doing it this way will make it safe.

He's nuts!! It is not safe at all. It's scary. He talks like a dictator or a cult leader now. If I did not beleive n possession, I would say he was possessed.

He won't talk to us now...so we are writing a letter. We just want him to know that we feel betrayed.

I feel so hurt and frustrated over this whole thing. I don't want to ever go to church again. Church is Hell!!!!

Sorry to vent and rant!!! :(
 
Ruby,

Coming to a TV set near you "When good Pastors go bad..."

If I did not beleive in possession, I would say he was possessed.
I don't believe in possession either, but he certain sounds "possessed by his own importance".

Plus, he has developed a little *secret society* of *elders* that he won't reveal to anyone.
Okay, just back away slowly, and try not to make eye contact. Once you're out the door, turn and run like hell!

I feel so hurt and frustrated over this whole thing.
Let it go - at the end of the day, it's his loss, not yours.

I don't want to ever go to church again.
Hey, me neither!
 
Ruby, it looks like you have been given a great opportunity to move on and leave some of this nonsense behind. It is hard, however, to live without a sense of community and support which is why many people belong to a "church". If you should feel the need for a community, please check out the Unitarians or even a local Buddhist group.

I myself am a former Christian turned yogi turned agnostic turned atheist. It was a long difficult journey but at least I no longer feel like I am searching for anything.
 
It must have taken a lot of courage to do what you did, Ruby. I hope you find a path that leads to happiness, either in a more sympathetic church, or in a life without religion.

take care
Luke
 
Loki said:
Ruby,

Coming to a TV set near you "When good Pastors go bad..."


I don't believe in possession either, but he certain sounds "possessed by his own importance".


Yes. He NEVER used to be that way. He was unassuming and down to earth and very warm and caring. He was one of us! Now he acts self-righteous and has exalted himself.


Okay, just back away slowly, and try not to make eye contact. Once you're out the door, turn and run like hell!

LOL. That's exactly what we did Sunday. We left as our Pastor started saying the closing prayer. We grabbed our kiddos out of their classes and got out the doors before anyone else. Once we got outside, I took a deep breath. I had been all clenched up in church.


Let it go - at the end of the day, it's his loss, not yours.

Yep...but I bet he sees it as our loss.:(
 
Landis said:
Ruby, it looks like you have been given a great opportunity to move on and leave some of this nonsense behind. It is hard, however, to live without a sense of community and support which is why many people belong to a "church". If you should feel the need for a community, please check out the Unitarians or even a local Buddhist group.

I myself am a former Christian turned yogi turned agnostic turned atheist. It was a long difficult journey but at least I no longer feel like I am searching for anything.

Thanks! We have considered getting together in our home with the other church members who left sometimes to support each other.

I am just burned out and disillusioned with religious nonsense. I think it will take some time to get over this. Every church I have ever belonged to has turned out to be legalisitic and abusive.

My hubby grew up in an isolated religious cult community.....so he's really had his fill. He sees our Pastor setting himself up on a pedestool, the same way the leader of the cult did.
 
Ruby,

Sorry to hear about the mental stress this is causing, but then again, sometimes it's a major event like this that makes us all take a second look at things.

From what little I know of you on the forum, this doesn't sound at all like what you want your religious connection to be about.

Keep us up to date. I'm curious as to what your thought processes will be in light of your pastor's change of direction.
 
Star Of The Sea said:
It must have taken a lot of courage to do what you did, Ruby. I hope you find a path that leads to happiness, either in a more sympathetic church, or in a life without religion.

take care
Luke

Thank you so much!!!:) :(
 
Mr. Skinny said:
Ruby,

Sorry to hear about the mental stress this is causing, but then again, sometimes it's a major event like this that makes us all take a second look at things.

From what little I know of you on the forum, this doesn't sound at all like what you want your religious connection to be about.

Keep us up to date. I'm curious as to what your thought processes will be in light of your pastor's change of direction.

Thanks!! I am too upset to even face how I feel and think about my walk as a Christian. I don't pray. I don't believe in miraculous healing. I don't believe in paying church tithes. I don't believe in the rapture. I am pretty much a heretic!!!
 
Originally posted by Ruby So far, thirteen have left the church as a result of Pastor's new changes.

Maybe you, your husband, and the other thirteen could start that ideal church you were describing in another thread .... but I hope you don't ..... Were the others perhaps a touch skeptical on religion, but afraid to bare it? I wonder to what extent this can be used by you as an excuse to relieve yourself of the burdens of religion. Perhaps you could start a non-religious community with the others?

Why does community have to center around a church or religion? Can't you have non-religious events without a church? (Those are rhetorical.)

I'm just happy to see you understand this for the truth that it is.

Messages from a god, yeah right. Poor suckers that stay with him.......

Good Luck Ruby.
 
Ruby, you should start looking at Christianity the same way you look at other religions... look at them with unbiased and objective eyes.

Does this stuff REALLY make sense to you? Is there any evidence of all their claims?

What, on the scale of truthfulness, sets Christianity apart from other religions that are predominant in other areas, such as Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism (sp?), etc...?
 
Ruby,

Sorry for your huge let down. You were wronged by this man and that church. It has nothing to offer you and every reason for you to stay away forever.

There are lots more secular groups focusing on various activities in which one can develop a sense of community. You have the right idea forming your own little social group from some of those former church members.

Don't give it a second thought. If that guy thinks he has a direct line to God, he's just delusional or a liar.

You sound intellectually strong and independent. That often leads to disillusionment with any church and the path to true free-thinking. Free thinking also often leads to a rejection of misplaced belief in a supernatural paternal figure who interferes in petty human affairs.

When you really think about it, religious prayer to a supernatural being is silliness and an abdication of responsibility for one's own acts and omissions. Nature, not the supernatural, constrains all of us. We are products or it and natural beings ourselves. It's useless and counterproductive to look to some external supernatural force for guidance or assistance.

Revel in your newfound independence. It can be scary sometimes, but it's much more revealing, consistent, and "empowering," as much as I hate to use that word.

You did the right thing.

AS
 
Ruby said:
Thanks!! I am too upset to even face how I feel and think about my walk as a Christian. I don't pray. I don't believe in miraculous healing. I don't believe in paying church tithes. I don't believe in the rapture. I am pretty much a heretic!!!
Any person that turns you off to religion that badly is a poor religious role model himself.

It's not you. It's not you. It's him.

He has changed course and you have not. He has changed course for the worse and you have not. God is still as He always has been. Stay on your course. When your Pastor looks up from his pulpit one day and sees nothing but his "secret society of elders" looking back at him, and then one day doesn't even see that, maybe he will get back on course.

Is there a higher council in your church you can raise this issue with? There usually is. You know, like a local-area administrative board. Something's happened to your Pastor; he needs serious help, and he's not going to be receptive to help coming from you or any of the other members of his flock. It'll have to come from higher up.
 
Ruby said:
Apparently, God has let him know that he has been doing things wrong as a Pastor and has built the church on the wrong foundation. He has not stressed paying tithes as he should, and not stressed people being involved in the church....amongst other things.


A question to ask yourself is "Why would God delay in delivering this message to your former pastor? Surely God would have known that the pastor's messages didn't include a strong influence on tithing and church involvement. Is it not possible that something else is motivating the pastor?

BTW, the old "God wants your money" and "you can volunteer your time" while presumably the pastor has a paid position (most do) screams pyramid scheme to me, albeit a very short pyramid. I've heard a hundred times the "there are 168 hours in a week" and "how many are you giving to god?" sermon. Of course, it has been conveniently delivered by a man that is *paid* to do the work that he wants me to do free of charge. This is after a two hour commute and 50 hours of work, not to mention a family and all that comes with that. That was one of the items that pushed me away from the church.

Plus, he has developed a little *secret society* of *elders* that he won't reveal to anyone.

What is their purpose? Why make them "secret"? Are they the CIAholes of the Pastor, out to keep tabs on the congregation? With such a small congregation, such formality/structure is suspect at best.

Instead, my Pastor waited til the following Sunday service....this past Sunday, and blasted my hubby and me from the pulpit.

Interestingly, this is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the teachings from the book he supposedly claims to believe. Doesn't it say to speak to the person with whom you have a problem directly and not to lay it out for public discussion?

Of course, how can he guilt you into falling into line without standing up at the pulpit and projecting an air of superiority?

He criticized and flat out mocked people for staying home sick. As I am absent a lot due to a painful irritable bowel and fibromyalgia, I felt he was speaking in part to me.

Always better to badger the congregation than to meet people where they are... that's what the Bible says Jesus did... right? ;-)

Best of luck - you are better off without that clown anyhow!


Take care,
Sort
:)
 
The suggestions of forming your own little house church is probably a good course of action. Maybe some of your fellow outcasts (how ironic at the number 13) could scout some of the other denominations to see if in a formal setting is really where you all need to be.

Maybe hanging out, having beer and natchos and discussing Galatians at the lake or at someone's house is more to the liking of some of you.
 
Beleth said:
Any person that turns you off to religion that badly is a poor religious role model himself.

It's not you. It's not you. It's him.
...

Hey Beleth:

It's religion.

Why don't you have a serious look (and I mean think about all that it implies) at AmateurScientist's signature. Kinda neat coming from Homer Simpson...

It reads:

"And what if we picked the wrong religion? Then each week we're just making God madder and madder."

Lord Kenneth's reply has some meaning to it too.

I have no intention of hi-jacking this thread. If you want to respond either start a new thread or PM me.
 
Re: Re: We left our church

SFB said:
Maybe you, your husband, and the other thirteen could start that ideal church you were describing in another thread .... but I hope you don't .....

I'm too upset to consider any more churches. I might consider all of us meeting on Sunday's to talk, give support, and make music. Most who left are fantastic musicians. We have two great guitarists. One great flutist. A fantastic young piano player. And three great voices!!!!


Were the others perhaps a touch skeptical on religion, but afraid to bare it?

To some degree, but not like me. Mainly, they are more liberal than fundamental...but still, not as liberal as I am. We are very close to one of those couples who left and had lunch with them Sunday to tell them what had happened at church. They had been in the church 21 years and our Pastor treated them like dirt.....no exaggeration! He pretty much ran them off. You see, they don't pay tithes because after years of study and talking to Rabbi's, have shown that tithing was never meant for the NT church. They have let their ideas slip out a bit in our church, and Pastor got very upset. Pastor only wants people in his church who will pay tithes!




Good Luck Ruby. [/B]

Thank you!!!!:D
 
I myself wouldn't follow through with the recommendation that you join another church.

What's the point of church? The teachings are all claims, no evidence.
 
Lord Kenneth said:
Ruby, you should start looking at Christianity the same way you look at other religions... look at them with unbiased and objective eyes.

Does this stuff REALLY make sense to you? Is there any evidence of all their claims?

What, on the scale of truthfulness, sets Christianity apart from other religions that are predominant in other areas, such as Islam, Hinduism, Shintoism (sp?), etc...?

I wish I had studied these other religions enough to give a good answer. I suspect I would conclude there was little difference.

Nothing much in Christiniaty makes sense to me right now. I think people have screwed it all up. All I see are abusive situations from the church at large. A lot of Christians speak a language that I no longer comprehend or can even tolerate. It's gets on my nerves so easily.

And yet, I still believe in God. But on what level, I am no longer certain. My hubby too is re-evaluating his whole concept of God and wondering if it's not what he has always been taught.

We've got a lot to figure out!!!
 
Ruby said:


I wish I had studied these other religions enough to give a good answer. I suspect I would conclude there was little difference.

Nothing much in Christiniaty makes sense to me right now. I think people have screwed it all up. All I see are abusive situations from the church at large. A lot of Christians speak a language that I no longer comprehend or can even tolerate. It's gets on my nerves so easily.

And yet, I still believe in God. But on what level, I am no longer certain. My hubby too is re-evaluating his whole concept of God and wondering if it's not what he has always been taught.

We've got a lot to figure out!!!


First of all, if you want to view how factual Christianity or other religions are, look first at the evidence for their claims, not the actions of the priests or members of the religion.

Their actions do not determine what the action truth is. IF Christianity is indeed true, then the church needs reform. However, from what I've and many others have seen, there is no evidence for the claims presented.

If it's truth you desire, don't follow your heart. Follow your brain...

And realize that what you have been taught ever since you were young and very easily be wrong.
 

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