We Got Coal For Christmas Thanks To Democrats

[JoeTheJuggler]

But who will treat these extra 30 million people? There is already a severe lack of primary care doctors in many parts of the United States. The money is being a specialist.

I suspect unless and until we do something about that problem, the role of allied health professionals (like PAs and LPNs) will increase even more dramatically.

I think there is a fundamental problem with the costs of medical school. I don't have any suggestions on how to fix that.

However, how does our doctor:population ratio compare to that of developed countries with some form or another of UHC? Are we that much more short on doctors than other such countries?

 

[Random]

I suspect unless and until we do something about that problem, the role of allied health professionals (like PAs and LPNs) will increase even more dramatically.

I think there is a fundamental problem with the costs of medical school. I don't have any suggestions on how to fix that.

However, how does our doctor:population ratio compare to that of developed countries with some form or another of UHC? Are we that much more short on doctors than other such countries?

Some quick numbers tracked down via google.

Practising physicians per 1,000 people

Greece 4.9
Belgium 4.0
Switzerland 3.8
Spain 3.8
Italy 3.8
Netherlands 3.7
Norway 3.7
Iceland 3.7
Denmark 3.6
Czech Republic 3.6
Austria 3.5 Poland 2.1
France 3.4 Japan 2.0
Germany 3.4 Mexico 1.8
Portugal 3.4 Korea 1.8
Sweden 3.4 Turkey 1.5
Slovak Republic 3.1
Hungary 3.0
Ireland 2.8
Australia 2.7
Luxembourg 2.5
Finland 2.4
United States 2.4
United Kingdom 2.4
New Zealand 2.2
Canada 2.2
Poland 2.1
Japan 2.0
Mexico 1.8
Korea 1.8
Turkey 1.5

This is a bit deceptive however due to the large numbers of specialists we have in the US, since that is where the money is. But any way you slice it, having 20% more physicians by population than Japan while spending more than twice as much on healthcare per capita is a pretty clear indication that our system has a fundamental flaw somewhere.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Some quick numbers tracked down via google.

Practising physicians per 1,000 people

Thanks. When I did a brief bit of searching, I was only finding patients per doctor.

This is a bit deceptive however due to the large numbers of specialists we have in the US, since that is where the money is. But any way you slice it, having 20% more physicians by population than Japan while spending more than twice as much on healthcare per capita is a pretty clear indication that our system has a fundamental flaw somewhere.

But it sounds like the number of doctors itself isn't a big issue. (At least not as big a problem as the brain drain from African countries, for example, where doctors are much more scarce.)

The higher proportion of specialists probably has something to do with the idea that having the best healthcare system in the world shouldn't include any consideration of access to that system.

On the other hand, do your estimates of the number of specialists count "Family medicine" or even "pediatrics" as specialties? Because these are really general practitioners, IMO.

 

[marksman]

I heard somewhere, that Democrats hate puppies.

is this true?

Some might, and with good reason. A dog is as devastating to the environment as an SUV (as measured by carbon footprint).

 

[dudalb]

Democrats also eat babies and/or sacrifice them to the communists.

And The GOP eats babies and sacrifices them to Adam Smith.
I find both sides are about the same when it comes to overheated rhetoric. In a lot of cases, all you have to do to change a rant from a Democratic one to a GOP one is change a few words.

 

[Dr Adequate]

I find both sides are about the same when it comes to overheated rhetoric. In a lot of cases, all you have to do to change a rant from a Democratic one to a GOP one is change a few words.

Yes, for example you only have to change the words "death panels" to ... er ... remind me?

 

[peptoabysmal]

If you are genuinely weary of struggling against your own straw men, you do of course have the option of ceasing to lie to yourself.

You do realize that this statement is the textbook definition of a straw man? I was being facetious when I said "doing the wrong thing is better than doing nothing." Just a simple "it is better than doing nothing" is more than flawed enough to stand on it's own. Maybe you were just being facetious, too.

If, on the other hand, you prefer the lifestyle that you have chosen, then what can one say? You have made your bed, and apparently you must lie in it.

You assume from my concerns about this bill that I have chosen a lifestyle? And this lifestyle is "bad" and therefore you can criticize it? (inferred by the "you made your bed now lie in it") *Ahem* strawman *cough*

I would say according to Rasmussen, most US voters prefer the "lifestyle" of questioning the cost versus benefit of the health care reform bill.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Doing something is better than doing nothing. In the Navy the policy used to be "doing something, even if its wrong." That didn't work very well (or at all in most cases) so they did a lot of work and developed procedures that work. It would have been impossible if the "opposition" had managed to block every proposed fix because it wasn't perfect.

If we don't do something, we end up doing nothing.

And saying something is "wrong" just because you don't like it is a really bad idea. For anybody.

It isn't just me that doesn't like it.

Fine I give up the tongue in cheek "doing the wrong thing" part.

You make my point better than I did, you state that just doing anything didn't work very well, but procedures were developed. Does that sound like the approach taken with this health care bill?

 

[Dr Adequate]

You do realize that this statement is the textbook definition of a straw man? I was being facetious when I said "doing the wrong thing is better than doing nothing."

Actually, that would be a textbook example of backpedaling.

I am amused to see you do so.

A strawman would be when you attributed to the people with whom you disagree the sentiment: "doing the wrong thing is better than doing nothing.".