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We don't need no education

lionking said:
Of course I know this. My point is that it is far from the solution for children reluctant to attend physical schools.
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"Reluctant"? I was reluctant to attend physical schools. Remote learning, now that lockdowns have ended, may be an option where physical attendance is not possible. Like it always has been for kids in remote and regional areas.
 
ahhell said:
I've known quite a few homeschoolers that were better educated than most of the public school kids I knew, I've also known a few that were of the, I'm not letting the government teach my kids to have sex crowd as well. I've known enough not to assume they are either.
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Sure, the pace of one on one tutoring is almost always going to be faster than a group environment, and if the person providing homeschool education is even half competent they can probably cover more material than the typical K-12 public education.

ahhell said:
Most home schoolers also work together in groups and networks, so even isolation isn't a problem except for those that chose it.
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yeah, but if what these groups are self-selecting, so you may just be multiplying whatever social hang-ups that drove these individual families to seclude their children from the public sphere. A network of sex-obsessed Christian nutjobs sheltering their children from anyone who isn't following the same orthodoxy and reassuring each other that this is a good thing to do is not really solving the isolation problem.
 
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lionking said:
Is home schooling a better alternative. Of course not. That is just a hippie dream.
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We have two children on full scholarships to college. Both will have started in what would have been their 7th grade year.

The first is in his second semester in engineering, earning straight A's. Age 13.

The second starts in January, he will still be 12.

Homeschooled. We followed no curricula. We thought they were mostly stupid. Dumbed down with what they think are child level concepts. Ours were just reading books and papers. We found school textbooks to be especially horrible, disjointed garbage. For example, reading Darwin's Origin of Species book kept them riveted cover to cover. The real stuff is always better.

We're not hippies. We studied peer review science literature and put what we learned to use, beginning with singing the ABC song through my wife's womb. Because we learned brain development begins in the womb. Early walking turns out to be especially important to the Dawn of Active Thought so we had ours doing walking practice at 2 months like the papers we read.

By Kindergarten age they both were testing 5th grade and the school system was adamant that your age determines what grade you are in. We didn't really have any option but to continue homeschooling.

It strikes me that the kids were 5 academic years ahead at kindergarten and six years ahead currently. Back at kindergarten age our motto was "widen the gap". It did, but only by a little.
 
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dann said:
Unfortunately, they are also socialized into considering that learning is a question of competition
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We believe that lack of appropriate competition is a key failure of the US educational system.

I was just a jock on athletic scholarship to college, but they make you go to classes in order to be eligible, lol.

I had an epiphany though and transformed myself into a scholar. Talk about easy. The competitive spirit in academics can't hold a candle to athletic competition. You don't have lazy team mates on your college athletic team like you do in your classes.

We (my family) are not competing against the dunces at our local school. We are competing with Shanghai, China and Singapore, etc.

What good does it do to be valedictorians of the worst schools in the country?

Instead, you find who scores the highest in the world on the PISA tests, and set about making them look stupid.

The world is competitive and if you don't act like it then on college admissions, with jobs, and in the marriage market, etc. you are going to be the loser instead of the winner.
 
lionking said:
So you never went to school? This explains a thing or two.....
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I expect to hear this anti school crap from people on the militant right, but the people spouting his crap in this thread are all well to the left politically.
Problem is it is blind, stupid, anti establishement attitude, let's stand up to the Man, ect. A lot of Hippie crap from the Sixties seems to be alive and well among certain "Progressives" today.
But I don;t want to see any of these people criticise the Right Wing Homeschoolers for whom I have a big dislike.. They have lost all creditbility to do that.
 
God, a lot of people who no doubt consider themsleved to be "critical thinkers" are spouting crap in this thread
 
Samson said:
I think times they are a changin'.
I think schools were good for mating behaviour,
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Define 'good'.

and computers deter this.
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Change it yes, but not 'deter' it.

Wrong in New Zealand. Standards collapsing.
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Standards were 'collapsing' in the 1960's.

Hmm... Thinks standards are 'collapsing' and computers 'deter' mating - where have you been these past 50 years?
 
Religion has nothing on Secular Ideologies when it comes to making otherwise inteligent people into advocates of nonsense.
 
Thermal said:
One showed up at a kids dance recital and just started fooling around with the AV equipment and had to be literally pulled off it. No concept of boundaries at all.

Eta: late teen, not a child
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I had a similar problem with a 'late-teen' who attended a normal school regulalry. So this proves...?
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/7btv14/the_more_things_change_the_more_they_stay_the/

https://www.medievalists.net/2023/09/medieval-teachers-complaining-students/

Some compilations of complaints about how bad today's youth is.
We live in unprecedented times, as each generation is just SO much worse than the last one.
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I've pointed this out before, and I will point it out again.

Each generation can be worse than the preceding generation, if your civilisation is in decline.

Many people point to quotes about people talking about failures of the current generation from Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman times, as proof that current generations are not bad.

Sadly those people don't realise that they were quoting people, whose civilisations were in decline, and those civilisations eventually failed.
 
novaphile said:
I've pointed this out before, and I will point it out again.

Each generation can be worse than the preceding generation, if your civilisation is in decline.

Many people point to quotes about people talking about failures of the current generation from Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman times, as proof that current generations are not bad.

Sadly those people don't realise that they were quoting people, whose civilisations were in decline, and those civilisations eventually failed.
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Or, alternatively, the complaint about the decline of the youths morality is just a universal and constant one with little actual substance.
 
Flo said:
How many of the children in your son's situation do you think have such extraordinary devoted, disponible, and competent parents ?

How many of the children who simply hate school and enjoyed remote learning (or in many case just being out of school) do ?
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I do not know that answers to that, no one does. That is why more research is needed, to re-engage children who have dropped out of education.
 
novaphile said:
Many people point to quotes about people talking about failures of the current generation from Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman times, as proof that current generations are not bad.

Sadly those people don't realise that they were quoting people, whose civilisations were in decline, and those civilisations eventually failed.
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But their populations were in decline due to disease, war, and climate change, not lack of education.
 
The phonics vs 'whole word' debate turned up on the TV news last night.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-10/literacy-teaching-revolution-underway/102834334

States (including mine) that have switched back to teaching students how to decode words via phonics are no longer receiving bad results in reading assessments on the national assessment program (NAP) https://www.nap.edu.au/naplan.

On the radio news this morning, the national broadcaster referred to recent research that shows that 50% of Tasmanians have insufficient literacy to manage normal day to day activities.

It's hard to imagine how many lives have been ruined by a stupid education fad.
 
novaphile said:
I've pointed this out before, and I will point it out again.

Each generation can be worse than the preceding generation, if your civilisation is in decline.

Many people point to quotes about people talking about failures of the current generation from Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman times, as proof that current generations are not bad.

Sadly those people don't realise that they were quoting people, whose civilisations were in decline, and those civilisations eventually failed.
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All civilisations eventually fail. Ancient Rome arguably lasted considerably longer than most other nation states. It can't have been in decline for that long.
 
arthwollipot said:
All civilisations eventually fail. Ancient Rome arguably lasted considerably longer than most other nation states. It can't have been in decline for that long.
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Wasn’t it in decline for something like four hundred years?

Or even one and a half thousand years if you include the Eastern empire.
 
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