We don't need no education

[Flo]

Remote learning will not work for all kids, but out of the 1.6 million kids in the UK now regularly missing school, there will be some for whom it is a godsend and the best way to re-engage them with education.

How many, and how do you plan to determine those who have benefited and/or will benefit from it ?

We forced our son to school and college, which he hated, then when everything went to remote learning, he thrived.

According to you are we good or bad parents?

How can you be sure you can apply your son's situation to all (or even a significant number of) the 1.6 million UK kids (and to those of other European countries - like France - who are in a similar situation) ?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Do other species learn mating behaviour in schools?

Fish?

I am no expert on mating behavior, but my web searches suggest it can be learned in sororities, schools, or families.

• A group of Betta (female) is called a sorority.
• A group of Cod is called a school or shoal.
• A group of Sardine is called a family.

 

[bigred]

Do other species learn mating behaviour in schools? No!?

In a sense, yes. Many (most?) learn it with direct interaction with others, which is their equivalent of "school." For many (most?) human beings, they learn a great deal in terms of social interaction there, including "mating behavior," i.e., early first steps into romantical relationships. This really needs to be explained? Do they not teach anything in your schools?

 

[bigred]

No. Get the children to schools for professionals to deal with their issues.

That is good parenting in my view.

Got to say I'm in agreement with LK here. Remote learning was a great thing during the pandemic. Absolutely the best solution to the problem at the time. Outside of that? Sure there might be a few kids who would do better, but school really is the best option for all involved.

I'm not saying schools are perfect. I was bullied regularly when I was at school and I hated it, and I doubt the situation has improved by a whole lot but that's an issue with the way schools deal with the problem and the solution is to fix that not abandon schools.

You guys realize you're spitting into the wind, right?

 

[angrysoba]

Serious questions, no snark: were the schools particularly abusive for any reason? Were other students generally able to succeed? Did the child study team evaluate your child to see if there were other remedies that could have had the student thrive in a conventional environment?

Utter nonsense.

Animals don’t “learn” mating behaviour. It is instinctual, not taught.

And now you are trying to replace the claim of “learned in schools” with any form of interaction. This makes it a definition so broad as to be impossible to refute as mating cannot exist without some form of interaction. School may be ONE form, but humans mated even before schools exist. Did you not learn this in school?

 

[Thermal]

Utter nonsense.

Animals don’t “learn” mating behaviour. It is instinctual, not taught.

And now you are trying to replace the claim of “learned in schools” with any form of interaction. This makes it a definition so broad as to be impossible to refute as mating cannot exist without some form of interaction. School may be ONE form, but humans mated even before schools exist. Did you not learn this in school?

What the hell are you talking about? We are talking about complex higher learning and social interactions, not the basic mating instincts that an insect would have. If a student learns well when dealing with a machine, but has trouble when there are living people around, that's a social interaction problem, which we higher animals have found ways to identify and make improvements upon, to the students' benefit. I have no idea why you think this would mean that basic social skills are only taught in a school. Simply being around a variety of other higher animals raises the odds of identifying a problem and remedying it early.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

This whole thing about remote learning seems a non-sequitur to me, since the OP article was about absenteeism. Presumably students enrolled in an approved remote study or other alternative program would not be counted as absent.

The original article seems to be about students who are not getting any regular schooling, remote or otherwise.

It also talks quite bit about students with various academic or social challenges, like various mental health issues. I doubt the looser supervision of remote schooling would help with that, and the two children featured in the article did not see remote schooling as the solution (one seems to be attending a different, more flexible in-person alternative school, the other opted for 1 on 1 homeschooling)

I would assume remote learning would be especially bad for students, especially young students, with various learning disabilities, given how poorly supervised remote learning is. That may work well for older students, especially college students, who can be reasonably expected to self-supervise (though the lack of strict supervision and structure in college often results in less disciplined students failing)

I agree with the gist of the article that public schools often fail in their duty to provide adequate education to students who need specialized attention and accommodation, but I'm not seeing how remote schooling is a magic solution for that.

 

[Nessie]

How many, and how do you plan to determine those who have benefited and/or will benefit from it ?



How can you be sure you can apply your son's situation to all (or even a significant number of) the 1.6 million UK kids (and to those of other European countries - like France - who are in a similar situation) ?

The article that inspired me to post this thread is primarily about kids in my son's situation, hence my suggestion of more remote learning. How many kids it would benefit, I do not know.

 

[Nessie]

This whole thing about remote learning seems a non-sequitur to me, since the OP article was about absenteeism. Presumably students enrolled in an approved remote study or other alternative program would not be counted as absent.

The original article seems to be about students who are not getting any regular schooling, remote or otherwise.

It also talks quite bit about students with various academic or social challenges, like various mental health issues. I doubt the looser supervision of remote schooling would help with that, and the two children featured in the article did not see remote schooling as the solution (one seems to be attending a different, more flexible in-person alternative school, the other opted for 1 on 1 homeschooling)

I would assume remote learning would be especially bad for students, especially young students, with various learning disabilities, given how poorly supervised remote learning is. That may work well for older students, especially college students, who can be reasonably expected to self-supervise (though the lack of strict supervision and structure in college often results in less disciplined students failing)

I agree with the gist of the article that public schools often fail in their duty to provide adequate education to students who need specialized attention and accommodation, but I'm not seeing how remote schooling is a magic solution for that.

I think remote learning, properly managed and organised, is a part of the solution. It would need a parent to be home, also supervising the child, making sure they log on, concentrate etc, acting like a teaching assistant. The need for that will decrease as the child gets older and proves themselves as a remote learner.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I think remote learning, properly managed and organised, is a part of the solution. It would need a parent to be home, also supervising the child, making sure they log on, concentrate etc, acting like a teaching assistant. The need for that will decrease as the child gets older and proves themselves as a remote learner.

That's a huge ask.

 

[JoeMorgue]

And there's the Elephant in the Room.

"School" as a vague concept has been 20% actual place of learning and 80% societal safety net for a while now and we're all just too polite to bring it up.

Yes in the abstract if you have a "base decent and functional home life" you can get educated to a high school level with a 200 dollar Chromebook and a 50 dollar internet connection.

But school also offers socialization and most importantly "getting out of your house so you can learn that what mommy and daddy tell you isn't the whole story."

The last thing we need right now is more shut ins who get their entire view of the world from a social media feed they've kicked everyone who disagrees with them off of.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

And there's the Elephant in the Room.

"School" as a vague concept has been 20% actual place of learning and 80% societal safety net for a while now and we're all just too polite to bring it up.

Yes in the abstract if you have a "base decent and functional home life" you can get educated to a high school level with a 200 dollar Chromebook and a 50 dollar internet connection.

But school also offers socialization and most importantly "getting out of your house so you can learn that what mommy and daddy tell you isn't the whole story."

The last thing we need right now is more shut ins who get their entire view of the world from a social media feed they've kicked everyone who disagrees with them off of.

Yeah, it's no coincidence that home and alternative schooling is often the last resort of religious whackadoos passing down orthodoxy to their children. It's a testament to the attractiveness of liberal values (small L) that the most repressive ideologies don't tend to propagate in an environment where individual liberty and freedom of expression are offered as a viable alternative.

I've met one person who was homeschooled who seemed to come out pretty normal, and plenty who seemed to go through quite a rough patch when they had to catch up on over a decade of missed socialization once they got out of their family bubble.

Really don't have tremendous confidence on parents using good discretion, and if their kids aren't getting a good education, lawyering up to get a good IEP or whatever seems a better avenue than retreating to remote learning or home schooling.

 

[Thermal]

We had a trio of homeschooled somewhat religious nut kids across the street when I lived in the wilderness of rural NJ. One showed up at a kids dance recital and just started fooling around with the AV equipment and had to be literally pulled off it. No concept of boundaries at all.

Eta: late teen, not a child

 

[Flo]

I think remote learning, properly managed and organised, is a part of the solution. It would need a parent to be home, also supervising the child, making sure they log on, concentrate etc, acting like a teaching assistant. The need for that will decrease as the child gets older and proves themselves as a remote learner.

How many of the children in your son's situation do you think have such extraordinary devoted, disponible, and competent parents ?

How many of the children who simply hate school and enjoyed remote learning (or in many case just being out of school) do ?

 

[Flo]

And there's the Elephant in the Room.

"School" as a vague concept has been 20% actual place of learning and 80% societal safety net for a while now and we're all just too polite to bring it up.

Yes in the abstract if you have a "base decent and functional home life" you can get educated to a high school level with a 200 dollar Chromebook and a 50 dollar internet connection.

But school also offers socialization and most importantly "getting out of your house so you can learn that what mommy and daddy tell you isn't the whole story."

The last thing we need right now is more shut ins who get their entire view of the world from a social media feed they've kicked everyone who disagrees with them off of.

This is in fact the last thing children need …

 

[JoeMorgue]

I've yet to meet a homeschooler who didn't have "There's some Woo I don't want little Billy to learn isn't Woo" as a primary concern.

"Ain't no gubernment man gonna tell my little Hunter we came from no durn monkeys" and "I am not vaccinating my precious Rayleigh, you know that causes gluten allergies" is like half of it just by themselves, with other religious and antigovernmental nonsense filling in most all of the rest.

Yes I'm sure there's a few honestly intentioned people here and there, but even so that kind of isolation is still a bad solution to any possible problem you might have with schools.

 

[ahhell]

I've known quite a few homeschoolers that were better educated than most of the public school kids I knew, I've also known a few that were of the, I'm not letting the government teach my kids to have sex crowd as well. I've known enough not to assume they are either.

Most home schoolers also work together in groups and networks, so even isolation isn't a problem except for those that chose it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I’m sorry to say, this illustrates your ignorance. Vanishingly few people live in remote Australia without access to school. Despite the country’s size, Australia is one of the highest urbanisation of all nations. And first rate, accessible schools.

You are also, like so many, underestimating the importance of face to face engagement. It is very well known that moving from face to face to remote communication degrades the quality of such communication. Psychology 101.

School of the Air has been operating successfully in remote regions since 1951.

Sorry, but this post from early in the thread has been bugging me.

 

[dann]

I think kids benefit from the socialization that occurs at school. It includes bullying to some degree as kids need to learn how to deal with such situations. That can backfire of course when the adults don't monitor the situation.

Unfortunately, they are also socialized into considering that learning is a question of competition: for grades, for recognition, for your value as a human being.

But school also offers socialization and most importantly "getting out of your house so you can learn that what mommy and daddy tell you isn't the whole story."

That is probably the best argument for (some kind of) school: My mother hated that part of it - and not for any religious reasons.

However, Why does school make people stupid? (RuthlessCriticism)

 

[lionking]

School of the Air has been operating successfully in remote regions since 1951.

Sorry, but this post from early in the thread has been bugging me.

Of course I know this. My point is that it is far from the solution for children reluctant to attend physical schools.