Wall a huge failure

[a_unique_person]

You're forgetting one minor fact. The isrealis are dealing with muslims. Genocide and persecution of minorities (especially jews) are holy pursuits in islam. They are bound by their love of allah to kill, and oppress the infidel. Comparing this situation to the one in America is an apple and oranges comparison.

Have you ever met a Muslim?

 

[a_unique_person]

Weak.

There was a population their, with their own aspirations, history and culture and community.

A good idea of it is the UN parition map, which shows all the existing population centres. When Isreal was unilaterally declared a state, (in defiance of the UN resolution, it was set for different borders), it completely ignored this.

As you can see, quite a mix.

 

[Tony]

Have you ever met a Muslim?

Plenty. In fact, I worked for a muslim for 2 years. But all the muslims I knew were muslim in name only (aka "bad" muslims). It's irrellevant nonetheless, I know enough about islamic history and doctrine to know what's expected of "good" muslims.

 

[Tony]

There was a population their, with their own aspirations, history and culture and community.

A good idea of it is the UN parition map, which shows all the existing population centres. When Isreal was unilaterally declared a state, (in defiance of the UN resolution, it was set for different borders), it completely ignored this.

As you can see, quite a mix.

So what? That still doesn't mean it was "their" land. That land has never been "Palestinian" land. Before Israel it was British land, before them, it was Ottoman. If anything, the Jews have more of a historical right to be there. They actually had a state there, which (big surprise) was destroyed by Jew-hating Europeans.

 

[a_unique_person]

So what? That still doesn't mean it was "their" land. That land has never been "Palestinian" land. Before Israel it was British land, before them, it was Ottoman. If anything, the Jews have more of a historical right to be there. They actually had a state there, which (big surprise) was destroyed by Jew-hating Europeans.

As the map shows, they lived there, on their land.

It was not British land, I think you do not understand what was meant by a 'mandate'. It was like a right to run the place till it was ready for self rule, in the interests of those who lived there.

What you seem to be saying, for example, is that the US government owns your land, not you.

 

[demon]

"What you seem to be saying, for example, is that the US government owns your land, not you."

They own his brain too.

 

[a_unique_person]

Plenty. In fact, I worked for a muslim for 2 years. But all the muslims I knew were muslim in name only (aka "bad" muslims). It's irrellevant nonetheless, I know enough about islamic history and doctrine to know what's expected of "good" muslims.

Ditto Xians. My parents are Xian, and are quite prepared to compromise on what the bible says or the pope says when it is clearly at odds with common sense and morality. This is the impression I also have with the Muslims I have met.

My own view is that it is extremism that is the issue. Extremist Muslims, to me, are very scary people, but so are Xians and Jews. Don't know about Buddists, they seem to just immolate themselves.

 

[Jim Bowen]

The idea of Palestinians not owning land or having land in Palestine is laughable in the extreme. Who lived their before Moses did the Red Sea party piece? Who actually lived there throughout the next couple of thousand years?

Personally, I'm wondering if the Israelis might not be onto a good idea in people returning to their 'native' land after a 2000 year gap. Angles, Saxons, Jutes, etc, arrived in Britain in the 5th and 6th centuries, so perhaps I can claim some prime land in Frankfurt and make myself comfortable.

Jim Bowen

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
As the map shows, they lived there, on their land.

So do you believe in racial land ownership?

That seems to be what you’re saying. It’s Arab land, because most of the people who live in the region are Arabs. That implies others are unwelcome if they’re of a different race.

I don't believe in racial land ownership. I think race should be irrelevant.

A person has claim to the land he holds title to. His claim to public lands depends on his relationship with the government that controls that land. If the government goes away, then his relationship to that government land is severed until there is a new government to administer it. Then his relationship to that land depends on his relationship to the new government.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
It was not British land, I think you do not understand what was meant by a 'mandate'. It was like a right to run the place till it was ready for self rule, in the interests of those who lived there.

It was Ottoman land administered by the British. It didn’t belong to the Ottoman Empire anymore as that no longer existed. Land owned by individual Arabs was still owned by those individual Arabs. The issue is land that wasn’t owned by individuals, but the disposition of public lands as well as governmental administration.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
What you seem to be saying, for example, is that the US government owns your land, not you.

The US government does have rights to the land I own. I have to pay taxes on it and the government has restrictions on how I can use it. In addition, if the government decides some project (such as a road or a stadium) is more important than my individual land ownership rights, they can take my land after giving me compensation.

If the US government were to fall, I would hope that whatever new entity takes its place will respect my land ownership rights. The park next door, which is government owned, it may remain a park, or perhaps the new government would sell it to an individual.

 

[Mycroft]

The idea of Palestinians not owning land or having land in Palestine is laughable in the extreme. Who lived their before Moses did the Red Sea party piece? Who actually lived there throughout the next couple of thousand years?

Nobody disputes that Arabs owned land in the British Mandate for Palestine. What's disputed is that there was ever a Palestinian government administering the region. There wasn't. It was controlled by the Ottoman Empire for some 400 years, then it was administered by the British government for a time.

 

[Jim Bowen]

Nobody disputes that Arabs owned land in the British Mandate for Palestine. What's disputed is that there was ever a Palestinian government administering the region. There wasn't. It was controlled by the Ottoman Empire for some 400 years, then it was administered by the British government for a time.

Interesting stuff, but I don't believe that it gives Israel the right to pinch the land of the Palestinians or to administrate it for the benefit of another group.

Jim Bowen

 

[The Fool]

Interesting stuff, but I don't believe that it gives Israel the right to pinch the land of the Palestinians or to administrate it for the benefit of another group.

Jim Bowen

Mycroft denies that Israel has driven the owners off land and given that land to Israelis..... If you keep pushing the point he will claim Israel purchased the land. Another cute excuse is that because someone attacks you you can steal land off other people that didn't attack you. Basically Israel can continue to expand to whatever size it likes with his complete and unquestioning support. A free ticket........as long as the original owners are Muslims, I don't think he would support Israeli theft of Christians land.

 

[Jim Bowen]

Many thanks, The Fool. That goes quite a way to explaining the credibility gap between some posts and the facts.

Jim Bowen

 

[Mycroft]

Mycroft denies that Israel has driven the owners off land and given that land to Israelis..... If you keep pushing the point he will claim Israel purchased the land. Another cute excuse is that because someone attacks you you can steal land off other people that didn't attack you. Basically Israel can continue to expand to whatever size it likes with his complete and unquestioning support. A free ticket........as long as the original owners are Muslims, I don't think he would support Israeli theft of Christians land.

I seem to recall a whaaambulance siren erupting from your throat whenever Skeptic characterized your views. You even complained to the administers and started threads about how unfair you felt his characterizations were.

This post proves you don't hold yourself to the same standards you hold others too.

You’re a liar and a hypocrite.

 

[Tony]

As the map shows, they lived there, on their land.

It was not British land, I think you do not understand what was meant by a 'mandate'. It was like a right to run the place till it was ready for self rule, in the interests of those who lived there.

That still doesn't change the fact that it was never palestinian land.

What you seem to be saying, for example, is that the US government owns your land, not you.

No, I own my land because I bought it and have the deed to it.

 

[The Fool]

I seem to recall a whaaambulance siren erupting from your throat whenever Skeptic characterized your views. You even complained to the administers and started threads about how unfair you felt his characterizations were.

This post proves you don't hold yourself to the same standards you hold others too.

You’re a liar and a hypocrite.

Lol.....you doofus, why are you not defending me? Calling my post a "generalisation" denying its a lie?

Anyway....which bit is a lie? You point out which particular bit is a lie and we'll explore your opinion on the matter...or you can run off, your choice.

I'm curious because you refuse to use the word lie with Zionists. Thier lies are "generalisations" or "characterizations".....do you know how stupid this makes you look?


anyway, In that post I was talking about you ,not too you...If I wanted your opinion I'd have asked for it. So go cry somewhere else.

 

[Tony]

My own view is that it is extremism that is the issue. Extremist Muslims, to me, are very scary people, but so are Xians and Jews. Don't know about Buddists, they seem to just immolate themselves.

But you ignore the fact that "extremism" is the status quo in islam.

 

[The Fool]

But you ignore the fact that "extremism" is the status quo in islam.

well Tony...when all you hear about and see are articles and stories about extremist muslims then yes, extremism is very very common among extremist..... Maybe if you got out more?

We happen to have a very large Muslim Community in Australia containing some extremists....no more or less than any other ethnic/religious grouping.

Basically your statement that extremism is the status quo in Islam is just more of your unsupportable garbage....I expect nothing else anymore.....Ok, I'm done, you can go now.

 

[Tony]

Basically your statement that extremism is the status quo in Islam is just more of your unsupportable garbage....I expect nothing else anymore.....Ok, I'm done, you can go now.

These muslims disagree with you. Once again you show yourself to be more content wallowing in PC ignorance than actually thinking for yourself.

We happen to have a very large Muslim Community in Australia containing some extremists....no more or less than any other ethnic/religious grouping.

Speaking of unsupportable garbage...

 

[The Fool]

These muslims disagree with you. Once again you show yourself to be more content wallowing in PC ignorance than actually thinking for yourself.



Speaking of unsupportable garbage...

you really are one funny guy Tony....I tell you that that you read about muslim extremists then you com to the conclusion that extremism is rampant among extremists.... to support this you link to someones musim bashing forum??? Are you after the silly post of the week award? Do you post to that forum? It looks to me like you would really fit in....

Please tell me the evidence you have that Extremism is the status quo among australian Muslims.....If you can do that I'll give you my evidence for stupidity being the status quo among texans...deal?