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VP Debate Thread

MattusMaximus said:
I haven't been watching the debate at all. I had to bail out of my party because I have a nasty cold. So I've just been lying in bed, cuddling the cats, watching old episodes of "House MD", and generally feeling like crap.

So, what'd I miss?
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Was this something Palin said during the debate?
 
GreyICE said:
Apparently you missed her Russia debacle. For Palin, this was a laser-guided smart bomb.
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Pretty funny.

I said it earlier but I think it bears repeating.

Upon reflection this whole debate is a rehash of the Couric interviews but the main difference is that no one was there to guide Palin back to the question she was avoiding.
 
corplinx said:
I had taken Obama's position on the issue for granted after seeing him dance with Ellen and chastise black churches for discriminating against gays. I had never actually gone to his website to research his stance.

My bad.

I've never been to McCain's website either. Personally, I find going to a candidate's website to be about as valuable as going to Ford's web site to find out if their cars are good.
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I'd also taken it for granted, but just checked Obama's website and I can't find any gay-right's platforms in the "issues" section.

Tonight I thought Ifill should have pressed them to find whether they support DOMA, whether they see marriage or gay marriage as a federal or state issue and so on. A standard liberal answer is that they personally disagree with gay marriage but think it should be up to states, so I'm still not sure of Biden's stand regarding the legality of it.

Obama does seem to desire a repeal of DOMA, there's stuff on the web from over a year, but here's a snippet from a recent interview with a GLBT organization:

DOMA was an unnecessary encroachment by the federal government in an area traditionally reserved for the state. I think that it was primarily sent as a message to score political points instead of work through these difficult issues.

I recognize why it was done. I’m sympathetic to the political pressures involved. But I think that we need to bring it to a close, and my preference would be to work through a legislative solution.
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http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_9825.php

As for the debate, I'm biased for Obama (and Biden, really like him), and think he won. But Palin did better than I expected. Biden was more substantive, and rebutted far more specifically, but Palin sequed into talking points fairly well. Biden attacked McCain very well; Palin's best attacks on Biden concerned his disagreements with Obama, which Biden evaded countering.

No huge winning moments but no huge failures either.

I think Puppycow noted the "exceptionalism" sequence by Palin, and that disturbed me as well. I'd say her take on it is the type I find dangerous--manifest destiny, bringer of democracy to the world (unless it's a friendly dictator)--a lot of the idealism that's got us into trouble in the MidEast and elsewhere.

Her vision of the VP as presiding over the Senate is also scary.
 
Biden: a Reverand Wright moment?

George Bush!!!
George Bush!!!George Bush!!!
George Bush!!!
George Bush!!!
George Bush!!!George Bush!!!George Bush!!!
 
Obviously haven't read the whole thread. A quick skimming finds that some people got the same impressions I got.

Overall summary, Biden was better, but Palin won by not losing. Expectations were so low that by doing almost as good as Biden, she did well where it matters.

Worst aspects for Palin: "White flag". Not answering questions, especially at the beginning. Maybe just a bit too casual.

Worst aspects for Biden: Maybe I'm biased, but I didn't see any. Threw out some statistics that might show up on factcheck.

Best moments: None stand out. Palin seemed very effective at hammering some points home, but they were standard issue talking points.

Not sure what to make about: Palin throwing GWB under the bus. It's tricky to distance yourself from your own party. McCain and Palin have to, but disloyalty doesn't always play well.

Overall impression: Palin earned her spot on a podium, and barring unforseen developments in Alaska, I think we haven't heard the last from her in national politics. Of course, I am assuming that she will serve out her term as governor of Alaska, because she isn't going to be elected Vice President, at least not in 2008. Of course, I have been wrong about elections before.

One thing for sure: Even as we speak, Tina Fey is practicing being "folksy".
 
For those who missed the debate: CNN is re-airing it now.
 
corplinx said:
Her reply about the VPs role regarding the legislature was so muddy that I would be afraid to try to read any sort of real vision out of it.
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You're not the only one.

IFILL: Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html
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corplinx said:
However, Obama caved on drilling this summer and I haven't heard him go back on that decision yet so as far as I know he is pro-drilling at the moment.
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I think he is using drilling as a bargaining chip. In his usual work-together schtick, he's willing to give the oil patch something in return for his green energy push. I don't particularly like it but it might be good politics.

On the debate, I agree with your conclusions. I struggled for a while but I finally found a word for Palin: chirpy. Her expressions - both verbal and non-verbal - remind me of a high school cheerleader. I think I would have judged her higher if I would have listened on the radio not viewed it on TV.
 
Sabrina said:
I've counted at least three lies or misstated facts from Palin so far; explain to me how that is winning please.
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This is not a High School Or College Debate ; it's how you impact voters; not a group of professors scoring you.
 
SezMe said:
On the debate, I agree with your conclusions. I struggled for a while but I finally found a word for Palin: chirpy. Her expressions - both verbal and non-verbal - remind me of a high school cheerleader. I think I would have judged her higher if I would have listened on the radio not viewed it on TV.
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No you wouldn't I was only listening for most of it. Have you any idea how annoying that fokesy soccer mom bit came off?
 
Well, it's all about perception and usually the first perception is the one that becomes the dominate perception....


CBSNews Poll. "Who won the debate?"

Biden 46%
Palin 21%
Tie 33%

CNN Poll. "Who won tonight's debate?"

Biden 51%
Palin 36%

Obviously this can change greatly but for now these are the first hard numbers I have heard from large'ish polling pools.
 
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geni said:
No you wouldn't I was only listening for most of it. Have you any idea how annoying that fokesy soccer mom bit came off?
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I think I'd agree with you. I watched it while playing with my 3-yr-old, so sometimes I was only listening. I think she looked better than she sounded, and I don't mean attractively, but just in nerves, credibility, and such.
 
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