Voice-Morphing and the Passenger Calls

pomeroo said:
I have received email from a high school social studies teacher who told me that her students actually believe that I did everything the purveyors of conspiracy theories say I did.
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That's me Dr. Papcun is refering to. I emailed him a last December I believe. He couldn't have been nicer in our email correspondence. I'll look for his email and post it. By the way, at that time, he had never even heard of LC.
 
Revolutionary91 said:
I have a question:

Why develop voice morphing technology in the first place. I cant think of a wholesome use for it. He is developing technology to allow us to impersonate each other, its a gift for criminals..
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It's called cancer of the larynx, you moron. My mother had it. I haven't heard her real voice since 1991.
 
Alt+F4 said:
It's called cancer of the larynx, you moron. My mother had it. I haven't heard her real voice since 1991.
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That is a wonderful suggested use for that technology. I had not thought of it, but that would be fantastic, and beats the hell out of the "Robot" like voices they have to put up with now.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
That is a wonderful suggested use for that technology. I had not thought of it, but that would be fantastic, and beats the hell out of the "Robot" like voices they have to put up with now.

TAM:)
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Yes, the voice quality that comes from using Servox electro-larynx is pretty awful. It would have been wonderful to have the technology then to record her actual voice and have that used as her "playback" voice.
 
Here's part of my correspondence with him where he gets right to the point.

George Papcun said:
Many thanks for your response. I was unaware of "Loose Change," to which I will turn soon after I write this, and then I may write some more.

In short, voice morphing is a topic of great interest and considerable
technical difficulty. Even now, let alone back in 2001, no method exists
that would allow real-time morphing as precise and as flexible as would have been required to simulate the telephone calls from the passengers and crew of the doomed flignts. Do your students actually suppose that the government had studied the voices of the passengers to the extent that they (meaning me, I suppose) would have been able to simulate them (all)? And would the gov't. have known just what to say to their families?
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I believe that the SEALs (namely DEVGRU) are the only military operators who train to parachute from civilian airliners. This does only work with airliners with a rear access hatch, and even then there is a serious risk of the slipstream breaking your neck.

My only criticism of the debunking of Voice Morphin Technology is that it doesn't seem to be as strong as most debunkings from this forum. I'm not saying that I believe VMT was used, but I do see how a 9/11 denialist could argue his way around your debunking:

The NWO simply uses the NSA's ability to intercept phone calls (however illegal that might be) and takes the large amount of phone time in order to give their VMT the necessary data in order to fake the phone call and the operator a good idea of what to say in order to sound like the caller who's call is being faked. The people who are on the plane are under stress, which allows any oddities to be explained.

This explanation fails when you realize that the NWO doesn't have control over who books a flight on which plane, which requires huge resources and planning, which means that there are more people who can spill the beans.

Kage
 
A-Train said:
No, pomeroo: if the calls are real, neither the fanatasist sand castle, nor anything else is washed away. The calls are certainly real, but that in no way validates the official story, or shows that 9/11 was not an inside job.

The phone calls show that the planes were hijacked by men of "Middle Eastern" appearance who were armed with knives and guns. That can mean either that the men were Arabs-- or that they were Middle Eastern looking men who were not Arabs but who were passing themselves off as Arabs for the purpose of framing Arabs for the crime of the century.

Not only do the phone calls not show that these hijackers were the Arabs we are told they were. They also do not show that these hijackers piloted the planes to their targets, or even that the hijackers were still on the planes when they crashed.

Therefore, the phone calls as a whole are consistent with a scenario in which professionally trained agents board the planes under the assumed identities of Arab patsies, then carry out the hijackings with the intent of the passengers making the calls to convey their mistaken impression that they are witnessing an Arab terrorist act. An enraged America falls for the ruse, and rushes off to wars in the Middle East.

This quote demonstrates the technique, used so often by debunkers, of choosing which "truthers" to confront, and telling us what "truthers" believe. Who are the truthers who believe in no hijackers? David Ray Griffin doesn't. Jim Hoffman doesn't. Show me a truther who believes in no hijackers and I'll show you a disinformationalist.
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So according to you men with Middle Eastern appearances were recruited to hijack some airliners and crash them in order to frame Arabs. Could you please tell me where are you going to recruit such men? You are going to have a hard time finding someone in a Western society that values life to do something like that. Probably a better place to look for a group of young men willing to kill them selves is in the Middle East. However my guess is that a young Muslim radical would find it distasteful to be used as a patsy by the infidels.

Now what's more likely, the two scenarios above or this one? Young Islamic radicals are recruited by an older man who they idolize because he was fighting the atheist Soviets when they were kids and now is fighting the evil Americans. There's your conspiracy.
 
JamesB said:
Give me a break, every 9/11 conspiracy theory out there relies on the assumption that special operations forces, the Air Force, FBI, CIA, FDNY and a dozen other government organizations were involved. Don't act all insulted when someone points this out to you.
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They also rely on the assumption that United and American were either in on the conspiracy or the employees are a bunch of idiots.
 
A-Train said:
No, pomeroo: if the calls are real, neither the fanatasist sand castle, nor anything else is washed away. The calls are certainly real, but that in no way validates the official story, or shows that 9/11 was not an inside job.

The phone calls show that the planes were hijacked by men of "Middle Eastern" appearance who were armed with knives and guns. That can mean either that the men were Arabs-- or that they were Middle Eastern looking men who were not Arabs but who were passing themselves off as Arabs for the purpose of framing Arabs for the crime of the century.

Not only do the phone calls not show that these hijackers were the Arabs we are told they were. They also do not show that these hijackers piloted the planes to their targets, or even that the hijackers were still on the planes when they crashed.

Therefore, the phone calls as a whole are consistent with a scenario in which professionally trained agents board the planes under the assumed identities of Arab patsies, then carry out the hijackings with the intent of the passengers making the calls to convey their mistaken impression that they are witnessing an Arab terrorist act. An enraged America falls for the ruse, and rushes off to wars in the Middle East.

This quote demonstrates the technique, used so often by debunkers, of choosing which "truthers" to confront, and telling us what "truthers" believe. Who are the truthers who believe in no hijackers? David Ray Griffin doesn't. Jim Hoffman doesn't. Show me a truther who believes in no hijackers and I'll show you a disinformationalist.
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So according to you men with Middle Eastern appearances were recruited to hijack some airliners and crash them in order to frame Arabs. Could you please tell me where are you going to recruit such men? You are going to have a hard time finding someone in a Western society that values life to do something like that. Probably a better place to look for a group of young men willing to kill them selves is in the Middle East. However my guess is that a young Muslim radical would find it distasteful to be used as a patsy by the infidels.

Now what's more likely, the two scenarios above or this one? Young Islamic radicals are recruited by an older man who they idolize because he was fighting the atheist Soviets when they were kids and now is fighting the evil Americans. There's your conspiracy.
 
T.A.M. said:
Well, for instance, it would be great for movie companies, and actors, who could licence out the rights to their voices, then they would not have to be present for voicing animations etc...

just off the top of my head.

TAM:)
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Actually, the first thing I thought of was not nefarious at all. You could replace Stephen Hawking's computer voice with a more human-sounding voice.
 
NobbyNobbs said:
Actually, the first thing I thought of was not nefarious at all. You could replace Stephen Hawking's computer voice with a more human-sounding voice.
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That would be a nice application; unfortunately, it's not voice morphing you need for that, but better voice synthesis to start with.
 
Kage said:
This explanation fails when you realize that the NWO doesn't have control over who books a flight on which plane, which requires huge resources and planning, which means that there are more people who can spill the beans.
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And also, obtaining the level of personal knowledge required for each passenger would be a real problem. Especially a call like this:

Linda Gronlund, called her sister, Elsa Strong.

Elsa Strong says, "She said, 'Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.' And she said, 'Please tell Mom and Dad how much I love them.' And then she got real calm and said, 'Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. and this is the combination.' And she just told me the combination of her safe.
http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc090302.html
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The fakers knew her safe combination? Now that's impressive research!
 
ktesibios said:
Being an old audio techie who has had some connection to forensic audio, I'll be eagerly awaiting this essay. And, just in case Dr. Papcun should happen to read this thread: please resist the temptation to over-simplify the technical stuff. The Smyth report might be a good model to follow:

I'm looking forward to some good reading.
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Seconded. I'm fascinated.
 
A-Train said:
This quote demonstrates the technique, used so often by debunkers, of choosing which "truthers" to confront, and telling us what "truthers" believe. Who are the truthers who believe in no hijackers? David Ray Griffin doesn't. Jim Hoffman doesn't. Show me a truther who believes in no hijackers and I'll show you a disinformationalist.
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You should take up this argument with David Ray Griffin, who proclaims in his speeches what the 9-11 "Truth" Movement, by getting empirical, has discovered, including this voice-morphing crap.
 
twinstead said:
Nothing is too difficult for the NWO!
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Not to mention the ability to collect incredibly detailed information regarding the person's family, including but not limited to alternate phone numbers to reach loved ones at (home vs. work) and the ability to recognize family members by voice.
 
Originally Posted by Revolutionary91
Why develop voice morphing technology in the first place. I cant think of a wholesome use for it. He is developing technology to allow us to impersonate each other, its a gift for criminals..


Anti-sophist said:
This is a deep philosophical question, to be sure...

Why invent the atom bomb?
Why invent the electrical chair?


... a question that goes far beyond the scope of both this thread and this forum. If you want to discuss the ethics of science and engineering, there's certainly a place to do it, but I don't think it's here.
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Im with Rev, Why?

Could we live without the atom bomb?
Could we live without the electrical chair?

Yes, I think is the answer.
 
Research like this could lead to musical applications.

In other words, the answer to the 'why' question is that it could sound interesting.

The potential for nefarious applications is much smaller than some here seem to think--to do a convincing impersonation of someone, you have to know all about him/her. The technology doesn't do that for you.
 
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