Voice-Morphing and the Passenger Calls

[pomeroo]

I'd forgotten about this one. I'm sure Malcolm brought it up, and it was criticised for just the reasons set out here, but then he started on about something else.

Then when he came back to the phone calls, he didn't return to Dr. Papcun's capabilities, but warbled on at inordinate length about things he said 1970s karaoke machines could do (they couldn't), and things he thought that modern digital editing technology can do (it can, but he dismally failed to find the multitude of evidence for the existence of these), and even kiddies' toys.

I remembered there had been some talk of a secret military system that could do it, and I kept mentioning that this was his only hope of even beginning to make a case, but I'd forgotten these details.

Now I'm starting to wonder. Did Malcolm really forget all about this system, and start wild speculation about music editing just for something to say? Or has he really been deliberately seeing how nonsensical his claims can get before we realise he's yanking our chains?



Rolfe.

Malcolm actually referenced the 1999 article that mentions Dr. Papcun. I know it's staggering, but he actually linked to the man who destroys his fantasies. I pointed this out, but was unable to penetrate the dense fog. His dissertation on karaoke machines is an instant classic, additional support for the view that he simply can't be real. Sometimes I have to check that thread just to make sure that my memory isn't playing tricks.

 

[pomeroo]

No, see Ron, is A-Trains fabrication, the hijackers, trained Navy Seals, take over the plane, rig it to remote pilot, and then escape out of the plane, parachuting to safety...He read it can be done in some guys book.

TAM

Hey, what the hell--parachuting out of a plane going 500mph would probably just muss your hair.

 

[Rolfe]

Malcolm actually referenced the 1999 article that mentions Dr. Papcun. I know it's staggering, but he actually linked to the man who destroys his fantasies. I pointed this out, but was unable to penetrate the dense fog. His dissertation on karaoke machines is an instant classic, additional support for the view that he simply can't be real. Sometimes I have to check that thread just to make sure that my memory isn't playing tricks.

Yes, that was what I was confused by. I remember now that he linked right to that article, and the whole thing being discussed, but I'd forgotten the details. When he started on the karaoke machines I occasionally told him to get back with the sooper-sekrit military system because it was the only one that had even a hope of flying, but he just went off on wilder and wilder tangents.

He's like a foxhound who gets totally distracted by a cat or something, and he must chase that and be proved right - and if he can do that it means he's caught the fox he thinks....

I suppose my mistake was expecting him actually to make his case and then being able to look and see whether it stood up or not. I'm not quite used to having to make the opponent's case as well. Except, I know homoeopaths who have to be prompted sometimes, as we know their arguments better than they do by now, so why am I surprised?

Rolfe.

PS. But he is real. He's the one who came on with his real name and location, and was Googled right down to his post code and telephone number and history of mortgage arrears.

Unless this is a far bigger conspiracy than I had even imagined.

 

[ktesibios]

In a separate essay, I will cover the technical aspects of voice morphing, which will further demonstrate the implausibility of the scenario set forth by the purveyors of conspiracy theories.

Being an old audio techie who has had some connection to forensic audio, I'll be eagerly awaiting this essay. And, just in case Dr. Papcun should happen to read this thread: please resist the temptation to over-simplify the technical stuff. The Smyth report might be a good model to follow:

The ultimate responsibility for our nation's policy rests on its citizens and they can discharge such responsibilities wisely only if they are informed. The average citizen cannot be expected to understand clearly how an atomic bomb is constructed or how it works but there is in this country a substantial group of engineers and scientists who can understand such things and who can explain the potentialities of atomic bombs to their fellow citizens. The present report is written for this professional group and is a matter-of-fact, general account of work in the USA since 1939 aimed at the production of such bombs. It is neither a documented official history nor a technical treatise for experts.

I'm looking forward to some good reading.

There are a couple of areas that have intrigued me. When Apathoid destroys the myth of remote-controlled Boeing 767s and 757s, he forces the fantasists into the no-plane camp, a place they'd prefer not to retreat to. When you show that the calls were authentic, you now have real hijackers flying real planes into real buildings.

What remains of the myths?

I think you may misunderestimate the mental resilience of someone who is determined to hang on to an ideologically-determined conclusion. Consider how long Lysenko held to his theories despite their repeated and reliable empirical failure.

Ap's essay is convincing to people who find technology interesting and are willing to learn. Genuine fantasists, OTOH, tend to bat it away either by denying Ap's qualifications or by ccounterposing irrelevancies, a' la Malcolm Kirkman.

Mebbe I'm too much of a pessimist, but it's hard not to be pessimistic about homo interneticus.

ETA: I type too slowly. See A-train above for an example better than I could have hoped for.

 

[T.A.M.]

Being an old audio techie who has had some connection to forensic audio, I'll be eagerly awaiting this essay. And, just in case Dr. Papcun should happen to read this thread: please resist the temptation to over-simplify the technical stuff. The Smyth report might be a good model to follow:



I'm looking forward to some good reading.



I think you may misunderestimate the mental resilience of someone who is determined to hang on to an ideologically-determined conclusion. Consider how long Lysenko held to his theories despite their repeated and reliable empirical failure.

Ap's essay is convincing to people who find technology interesting and are willing to learn. Genuine fantasists, OTOH, tend to bat it away either by denying Ap's qualifications or by ccounterposing irrelevancies, a' la Malcolm Kirkman.

Mebbe I'm too much of a pessimist, but it's hard not to be pessimistic about homo interneticus.

I think you misspelled the word "retardation" so I have bolded your spelling of it.

TAM

 

[pomeroo]

I think you may misunderestimate the mental resilience of someone who is determined to hang on to an ideologically-determined conclusion. Consider how long Lysenko held to his theories despite their repeated and reliable empirical failure.

You said a mouthful! The other night (actually it was early morning) I watched a terrific show on the Discovery-Times Channel about the bombing of the Murrah building. Called "Conspiracy Test," it was the show I've long wanted to see. They actually built a bomb to McVeigh's specifications and measured the power of the blast. A conspiracist whose name I can't recall right now predicted the result would be ten times less than FEMA's estimate. Guess what? He was wrong: the "official" estimate was almost exactly on the money. The conspiracist, having seen the definitive refutation of his theory, said, "Well, you can rationalize anything."
Yup, they sure can.

Ap's essay is convincing to people who find technology interesting and are willing to learn. Genuine fantasists, OTOH, tend to bat it away either by denying Ap's qualifications or by ccounterposing irrelevancies, a' la Malcolm Kirkman.

Mebbe I'm too much of a pessimist, but it's hard not to be pessimistic about homo interneticus.

Unshakable ignorance is quite frightening.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Hey, what the hell--parachuting out of a plane going 500mph would probably just muss your hair.

Now you know why they invented the hair morpher.

 

[A-Train]

No, see Ron, is A-Trains fabrication, the hijackers, trained Navy Seals, take over the plane, rig it to remote pilot, and then escape out of the plane, parachuting to safety...He read it can be done in some guys book.

TAM

That's slander, TAM. And it's not funny. I've never said or even suggested that Navy SEALS had anything to do with 9/11.

Take it back.

 

[Alareth]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.
No, see Ron, is A-Trains fabrication, the hijackers, trained Navy Seals, take over the plane, rig it to remote pilot, and then escape out of the plane, parachuting to safety...He read it can be done in some guys book.

TAM

Hey, what the hell--parachuting out of a plane going 500mph would probably just muss your hair.

Was it a D.B. Cooper biography?

 

[Alareth]

That's slander, TAM. And it's not funny. I've never said or even suggested that Navy SEALS had anything to do with 9/11.

Take it back.

Just to be a bit pedantic, slander is a verbal act. In print it's libel.

 

[JamesB]

That's slander, TAM. And it's not funny. I've never said or even suggested that Navy SEALS had anything to do with 9/11.

Take it back.

Give me a break, every 9/11 conspiracy theory out there relies on the assumption that special operations forces, the Air Force, FBI, CIA, FDNY and a dozen other government organizations were involved. Don't act all insulted when someone points this out to you.

 

[ref]

Great job, Ron!

 

[CHF]

My point is it is being developed for a nefarious reason. Very relevant to this thread.

1) Assume, without evidence, that it's being developed for evil reasons.

2) Therefore assume it could have been used on 9/11.

Classic!

 

[apathoid]

He did not deal with the possibility, such as I am proposing, that the pilots had been shot through the head by highly trained hijackers, who then would have been able to rig the cockpit for remote flight unimpeded.

You are correct. However, I mentioned somewhere in the essay that I didn't include any scenarios with suicidal sleeper agents because I found the idea implausible. I didn't consider the possibility of sleeper agents escaping through one of the exits because the idea didn't occur to me. I won't scoff at the notion as others have done, but I really can't see it happening, especially on a 757. Two things, you have to be going really slow - to avoid possible mid-air breakup - and you have to be unpressurized and below 8000' or so, otherwise you'll never get the door open(even going slow enough, I doubt you'd be able to open anything but the overwing hatches on a 757 - because you'd have to push the door forward and out into the direction of the airstream and the doors are ridiculously heavy). The perps would also have to use an exit that won't get them killed, and they'd have to remember to disarm the escape slides or they'd be in for a big surprise.

What sort of scenario did you have in mind?

 

[ref]

The perps would also have to use an exit that won't get them killed, and they'd have to remember to disarm the escape slides or they'd be in for a big surprise.

A perfect plan ruined by the escape slides. That would have been a NWO blunder like no other.

 

[A W Smith]

No, pomeroo: if the calls are real, neither the fanatasist sand castle, nor anything else is washed away. The calls are certainly real, but that in no way validates the official story, or shows that 9/11 was not an inside job.

The phone calls show that the planes were hijacked by men of "Middle Eastern" appearance who were armed with knives and guns. That can mean either that the men were Arabs-- or that they were Middle Eastern looking men who were not Arabs but who were passing themselves off as Arabs for the purpose of framing Arabs for the crime of the century.

Not only do the phone calls not show that these hijackers were the Arabs we are told they were. They also do not show that these hijackers piloted the planes to their targets, or even that the hijackers were still on the planes when they crashed.

Therefore, the phone calls as a whole are consistent with a scenario in which professionally trained agents board the planes under the assumed identities of Arab patsies, then carry out the hijackings with the intent of the passengers making the calls to convey their mistaken impression that they are witnessing an Arab terrorist act. An enraged America falls for the ruse, and rushes off to wars in the Middle East.

This quote demonstrates the technique, used so often by debunkers, of choosing which "truthers" to confront, and telling us what "truthers" believe. Who are the truthers who believe in no hijackers? David Ray Griffin doesn't. Jim Hoffman doesn't. Show me a truther who believes in no hijackers and I'll show you a disinformationalist.

you have been watching too many steven segal movies. tell me. Did you study drama in school?

 

[lkhllywd]

I have always wondered why the flight with the most passengers had no passenger calls from it.

Excuse me?

I haven't been around long enough to provide a link, but I suggest you Google "Betty Ong"+transcript.

 

[T.A.M.]

That's slander, TAM. And it's not funny. I've never said or even suggested that Navy SEALS had anything to do with 9/11.

Take it back.

I here by retract the words "Navy Seals", and in their place use the words "Government Agents".

Is that ok?


Oh, and by the way, while misquoting you may not have been funny, the silliness of your suggestions on how they accomplished the hijacking and crash, is riciculously funny.

TAM

 

[Rolfe]

This idea has been around quite a while. And yet Hollywood film studios are still getting actors back in to loop their lines, and the Simpsons still get the actual celebrities to come along if they want to use their voices. I've not heard of any court case regarding impersonation by voice morphing either.

What happened? Isn't it as good as it was expected to be? Doesn't Dr. Papcun want to be rich?

Or has it all been hushed up in the "sooper-sekrit" bunker?

Rolfe.

 

[Big Les]

Is Revablutionary91 actually going to comment on the substance of what Papcun has to say?