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Video Game Rape Fest

sadhatter said:
What bothers the hell out of me is this.

Parents are ignorant of video games, some people would see this as a reason to educate themselves about different kinds of video games, who they are geared toward, and at the very least, how to get a feel for what a game is going to contain.

But the majority of people seem to have this " we don't know about video games, and we don't want to, so the world should have a safety net." attitude.

It is not a game manufacturers fault you can't gather up the initiative to learn about video games to protect your kids.
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I agree with you, but this is what really concerns me. The reality is that a huge portion of parents are actually clueless about video games, and buy them for their kids without paying attention to what they are.

That's just reality. In an ideal world, every parent is perfect, and kids are not given things meant for adults. But that's a total pipe dream. It's not being pragmatic to just /handwave such concerns as these, in this world.

I don't like regulations and restrictions. But I can't just throw my hands up and go "people are stupid, but I'm selfishly going to insist that I get everything I want and damn anyone else". And that is what I feel that most do with these subjects. They just completely blow off the concern, posting idealized nonsense about how the world should work and how parents should behave.

But the world doesn't work that way, and parents don't behave that way. Whatever happened to some kind of personal responsibility on the part of the company creating these things? They don't care about anything but making dollars.

All I see is people who are gleeful for such a game, not really giving a damn that it may get into the hands of kids. I repeat, I'm not a fan of regulation and restrictions. But I also am appalled the way people just handwave these concerns from their little dream worlds they call reality.
 
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Blackadder said:
I am playing Dungeon Overlord right now, the first ever facebook game I enjoy (basically it's a Dungeon keeper clone)

[qimg]http://media.curse.com/content/images/2011/January/FACEBOOK/dungeon-overlord-h.jpg[/qimg]

You can even name each and every little minion (ok except goblins) Right now I have 15 warlocks, named after popes (Benedictus, Gregorius, Anastasius, Pius etc etc
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BTW, the early reviews for Dungeons, another Dungeon Keeper clone, are not very good. The attempt to do the humor in particular apparently falls flat on it's face.
 
dudalb said:
I could retire if I had a dollar for every time I wiped out a alien race in MOO2.
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I've slaughtered untold numbers of Locust in Gears of War 2. From time to time I feel a bit of sympathy for them... Then I remind myself they're entirely fictional digital creations that only exist inside my Xbox. And back to the slaughtering I go.
 
dirtywick said:
Japan is among the lowest rapes per capita in the world, among other sexual crimes. Among a lot of other factoids related, the relevant one is instead of making prolific games with vague references to sex, they simply make hundreds of games about rape and being a rapist.

I don't think this author/psychologist tried very hard.
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This author/pschologist reminds me of Frederick Wertham and the great Comic Book Inquistion of the 1950's, which did nothing but set comics book back 20 years as far an dealing with more mature topics went.
I think, frankly, some psychologist to have a strong strain of wanting to set up some kind of censorship at times.
 
Arthur Denton said:
Unfortunately, yes, evidence points to you being right. Kids don't even care nowadays. I remember when I was younger, that killing someone was outrageous - really. Stealing was outrageous. We would have list of forbidden words, and even though I knew the words, I was also outraged when I heard them for the first time. (I feel like granpa Simpson while writing this).

I believe that gaming has been trying to stretch violence, and reached boundary after boundary without stopping. Rape wouldn't be a barrier, but possibly will be an end, since, what can you appeal to once you get into sexual abuse? Complete eradication of a species? Maybe you can appeal to creationism but thent that would be stretching too far.
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Been done: '82, for Atari 2600: Custer's Revenge http://www.answers.com/topic/custer-s-revenge-1
 
Ferguson said:
In Mass Effect, you have the option of killing the Rachni queen, the last of her kind, thereby genociding the Rachni species.
Though the Rachni virtually exterminated the entire Krogan race, so you could say what goes around comes around.
Nevertheless, killing the Rachni queen gives you Renegade points (i.e. bad karma).
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Which went unreported altogether when Fox raged on about Mass Effect the FIRST time....



Meh. The demo was fun, but I'm not sold on it, if I'm honest.
 
dirtywick said:
Japan is among the lowest rapes per capita in the world, among other sexual crimes. Among a lot of other factoids related, the relevant one is instead of making prolific games with vague references to sex, they simply make hundreds of games about rape and being a rapist.

I don't think this author/psychologist tried very hard.
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Not to mention, though I am going to, thousands of anime, manga and the like with that + loads of other perversion (some of which the Germans particularly share with them (as in Cartman's mom and her films)). This is a fun field for study - and too few people looking academically (in several fields)
into the relation of a culture to it's pornography. And there is a relation until the culture grows too large. Lot's of things there was no functional interest in in the US became big business in the last 30-40 years. only six or so biggies prior to that and only one of them would get you in BIG trouble then and now (well, 2, but one of those was mostly if not completely fraudulant.
 
Game desinger here. I find it flattering that games are so frequently considered to have such a great impact on minds and hearts, even if it's usually in a negative context. It'd be too bad if blaming games, music, cinema or books for the state of today's youth got quite out of fashion - after all, if you can't corrupt a mind, you can hardly enrich it, can you? ;)

Dragging the subject of rape into this is getting tiresome, though. Sexuality is even more taboo in games than in other media, and outside of Japan with its bizarre niche market, rape is hardly in games at all. As fuelair pointed out, this lesson was learned in the 80's, and video games getting blamed for rapes when there's less freedom to portray sex in games than in any other media is terribly unfair.

Bulletstorm will probably live longer in the minds of its players than anyone looking to stir controversy. There'll be other targets. If you don't actually want to know or care, you won't focus on one game too long, and there tends to be very little knowing or caring in these matters.
 
Whiplash said:
I agree with you, but this is what really concerns me. The reality is that a huge portion of parents are actually clueless about video games, and buy them for their kids without paying attention to what they are.

That's just reality. In an ideal world, every parent is perfect, and kids are not given things meant for adults. But that's a total pipe dream. It's not being pragmatic to just /handwave such concerns as these, in this world.

I don't like regulations and restrictions. But I can't just throw my hands up and go "people are stupid, but I'm selfishly going to insist that I get everything I want and damn anyone else". And that is what I feel that most do with these subjects. They just completely blow off the concern, posting idealized nonsense about how the world should work and how parents should behave.

But the world doesn't work that way, and parents don't behave that way. Whatever happened to some kind of personal responsibility on the part of the company creating these things? They don't care about anything but making dollars.

All I see is people who are gleeful for such a game, not really giving a damn that it may get into the hands of kids. I repeat, I'm not a fan of regulation and restrictions. But I also am appalled the way people just handwave these concerns from their little dream worlds they call reality.
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I find it interesting that you hold everyone responsible for things getting into the hands of kids, except their parents. Because the "world doesn't work that way".:rolleyes:
 
Blackadder said:
I am playing Dungeon Overlord right now, the first ever facebook game I enjoy (basically it's a Dungeon keeper clone)

http://media.curse.com/content/images/2011/January/FACEBOOK/dungeon-overlord-h.jpg

You can even name each and every little minion (ok except goblins) Right now I have 15 warlocks, named after popes (Benedictus, Gregorius, Anastasius, Pius etc etc
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Dungeon Overlord is a DK clone? DK, not DK2? If it is, I'll go get it this weekend. I loved that game.
 
Whiplash said:
But the world doesn't work that way, and parents don't behave that way. Whatever happened to some kind of personal responsibility on the part of the company creating these things? They don't care about anything but making dollars.
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One could make similar arguments about alcohol and tobacco sellers, I think. Do they have a personal responsibility to account for the damage their products do, and are they responsible if a stupid parent doesn't prevent her kids from drinking too much?

All I see is people who are gleeful for such a game, not really giving a damn that it may get into the hands of kids. I repeat, I'm not a fan of regulation and restrictions. But I also am appalled the way people just handwave these concerns from their little dream worlds they call reality.
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I guess, given all this, that I'm not sure what you actually are trying to say. I see the concern that kids might get these games, and I can sympathize with that (on a personal level, I take quite a bit of care to make sure that my copies of such games are secure), but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do beyond that. It seems to me that asking for any more, such as more undue restrictions or bans, would amount to blaming me for other people's stupidity and set a dangerous precedent regarding what the government can restrict and why. To be fair, the one statement about not being a fan of regulation suggests you'd agree with that, but given that, as I said, I'm not sure what if anything you actually do want.

Rufo said:
Game desinger here. I find it flattering that games are so frequently considered to have such a great impact on minds and hearts, even if it's usually in a negative context. It'd be too bad if blaming games, music, cinema or books for the state of today's youth got quite out of fashion - after all, if you can't corrupt a mind, you can hardly enrich it, can you? ;)
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Again with the anecdotes - I've found that several of my games, some of which would fall into the questionable categories we're discussing, were in fact very powerful. The one example I really like to use is one game which basically forced me to choose between looking for a truly good solution or settling for the lesser of two evils.

That, and I find that the allusions to other literary works in some of these games have also expanded my own knowledge... there was one game with multiple allusions to Greek mythology which is probably the best example I have for that idea.

And to top it all off, forcing myself to work through the Japanese text has proven to be wonderful practice for my language skills.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal; the exact nature and magnitude of any positive or negative effects will vary greatly. If all you want to prove is that it's possible for games for have a positive effect, though, I think I can manage that much.

Dragging the subject of rape into this is getting tiresome, though. Sexuality is even more taboo in games than in other media, and outside of Japan with its bizarre niche market, rape is hardly in games at all. As fuelair pointed out, this lesson was learned in the 80's, and video games getting blamed for rapes when there's less freedom to portray sex in games than in any other media is terribly unfair.
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Frankly, I think Japan's treatment of this topic in video and computer games is more reasonable than the relevant US policies. But I suppose I'm somewhat biased given that I probably qualify as an otaku.
 
Whiplash said:
But the world doesn't work that way, and parents don't behave that way. Whatever happened to some kind of personal responsibility on the part of the company creating these things? They don't care about anything but making dollars.
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The company has given the game a mature rating and gone out of their way to make sure that everyone knows that it is gory. They have created a product for a specific age-group and are marketing to that age group. That is adequate responsibility. If the targeted audience responds well, they will make some money and that is capitalism at its best.

Whiplash said:
All I see is people who are gleeful for such a game, not really giving a damn that it may get into the hands of kids. I repeat, I'm not a fan of regulation and restrictions. But I also am appalled the way people just handwave these concerns from their little dream worlds they call reality.
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An extremely violent game is less dangerous to a child's mental development than an uninvolved parent.
 
Whiplash said:
All I see is people who are gleeful for such a game, not really giving a damn that it may get into the hands of kids. I repeat, I'm not a fan of regulation and restrictions. But I also am appalled the way people just handwave these concerns from their little dream worlds they call reality.
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So what would you propose? Should companies simply refrain from manufacturing products that are not suitable for children?
 
Ryokan said:
A violent video game, where you can shoot off body parts and cut people in two in killing sprees, but the worst part is calling the moves "topless" and "gang bang"?!?!

Only in America.
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Well, to be fair, the Japanese aren't far behind with stupid censorship rules. They have porn that ranges from the most softcore to the raunchiest, dirtiest, most explicit.. but they still can't get over having to censor the girl's vagina.
 
dudalb said:
This author/pschologist reminds me of Frederick Wertham and the great Comic Book Inquistion of the 1950's, which did nothing but set comics book back 20 years as far an dealing with more mature topics went.
I think, frankly, some psychologist to have a strong strain of wanting to set up some kind of censorship at times.
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Actually psychologists just want to be relevant. The only way they make real money is to write a book and the only way to really do that is to have a controversial subject to deal with. Then, of course, they get to pitch the book when they appear as a talking head on the cable news circuit.
 
I've played through Sengoku Rance multiple times, and still haven't raped anyone. Unlike Bulletstorm, you actually rape people, and get character upgrades for doing so:

6oeiyu.jpg
 
Lyrandar said:
Again with the anecdotes - I've found that several of my games, some of which would fall into the questionable categories we're discussing, were in fact very powerful. The one example I really like to use is one game which basically forced me to choose between looking for a truly good solution or settling for the lesser of two evils.

That, and I find that the allusions to other literary works in some of these games have also expanded my own knowledge... there was one game with multiple allusions to Greek mythology which is probably the best example I have for that idea.

And to top it all off, forcing myself to work through the Japanese text has proven to be wonderful practice for my language skills.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal; the exact nature and magnitude of any positive or negative effects will vary greatly. If all you want to prove is that it's possible for games for have a positive effect, though, I think I can manage that much.
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I think it's natural to assume a strong impact would work both ways. When debating violence in games and comparing them to other forms of art and entertainment, I've come across the question "But doesn't the interactivity make it a stronger experience?", to which I answer "Yes, that's what's so great and interesting about it!"

I'm not claiming some sort of moral relativism, far from it. But just as your anecdotes suggest, I think games do give powerful experiences, and jumping to deny the impact they can have on us just to prevent censorship is dishonest. Rather, we should confront the notion that fiction, regardless of its impact, is something people need to be legally protected from.

Frankly, I think Japan's treatment of this topic in video and computer games is more reasonable than the relevant US policies. But I suppose I'm somewhat biased given that I probably qualify as an otaku.
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I don't know. I find the US policies strange and morally inconsistent, but you also already mentioned "particularly nasty" games to come out of Japan, and the way they're used in video game debates. Obviously, as a developer I like to have as much freedom as possible in making games, but I seeing Japanese games used to demonize the entire medium, I'm not sure I appreciate their policies either.
 
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