Vegetarianism

[RenaissanceBiker]

If some of the claims about the environmental impact of meat production are correct, there's some pretty valid reasons why people should care about what others eat.

Those impacts can be mitigated without putting an entire industry out of business. I am all for environmental regulations that would require treatment of agricultural runoff.

Good point. The less people that like meat the cheaper we can keep the price.

It cost me quite a bit to put this in the freezer. However, there was very little impact on the environment. A good bit of that cost went to preserving wild habitats.

What ruminants are really good at doing is taking something that humans can not digest - cellulose - and turning into something that humans can digest - protein.

I can't eat grass but deer can. They are lean and tasty. I actually made venison pizzas last weekend.

 

[Mobyseven]

Those impacts can be mitigated without putting an entire industry out of business. I am all for environmental regulations that would require treatment of agricultural runoff.

Setting aside the question of whether or not putting the factory farming industry out of business would be a bad thing: the statement "things could be better in the future" hardly justifies "therefore we are right to eat meat now (when things are bad)".

 

[whatthebutlersaw]

I'm saying that basing an life decision on the principle "I'm worried about what other people's opinion of me is" is a sad and troublesome justification.

You want to eat meat? Fine, whatever. But if your reasons for eating meat are as you outlined above, then you need to start caring a lot less about what other people think of you.

Of course, maybe you have a huge list of reasons that you eat meat. But then we're into the realm of "I was totally vegetarian but then it turns out vegetarians are JERKS so I'm not vegetarian anymore" stories, which don't have any point except to bash vegetarians ("OMG I totally knew a vegetarian who was soooo mean too!")

Note that I never said that you don't have the right to make up your own mind for whatever reason you choose. But if you're going to post your reasons up to make some kind of point, don't get all snippy when someone points out that the reasons as presented reflect more poorly on you than on anything else.

Well, fortunately, it's not based on what other people think of me, but what I think of that idiot. I really wanted there to be one more meat eater in the world just because of this person.

Way to prove my point, btw.

I was vegetarian because I wanted to. Now I'm not, because that's what I want now. It really is as easy as that.

I made the decision to switch when I heard the same lame argument put forward in an arrogant and overbearing manner just once too many. I didn't care much either way.

I'm certainly not changing my mind again because some lame-o on the internet claims it's "sad", so your little dig was quite unsuccesful. Any thoughts I had of revisiting are now postponed indefinitely.

 

[SOdhner]

My wife refers to herself as a vegetarian because it's mostly accurate and being more specific is both a pain and more information that people want. She eats fish every now and then, or even chicken if she's having a serious craving. She doesn't care that I eat meat, though obviously since we eat dinner together I don't normally have meat for dinner.

My roommate is the next step up, and avoids meat completely. She might eat something with gelitin or something in it without thinking or worrying about it. If you found a way to grow fried chicken on trees she would give you her first-born child.

Next you have all my sisters-in-law. They are vegan, and for at least some of them I suspect they wouldn't feel comfortable with eating meat even if it were vat-grown, though I can't say that for sure or tell you what reasons they would give.

I've found that substitute meat can be quite delicious even though it's still not quite the same. If I felt the need to become a vegetarian I could do it, though I would sometimes be really tempted to cheat.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Setting aside the question of whether or not putting the factory farming industry out of business would be a bad thing: the statement "things could be better in the future" hardly justifies "therefore we are right to eat meat now (when things are bad)".

False dichotomy? Things can be better, but I don't think they are so bad we should end meat production. How "good" would things have to be before we are "right" to eat meat? This is why I disagree with the environmental arguement against meat consumption. If I could completely clean up meat production, vegans would still be against eating things with faces. The environmental arguement is convenient to them but it's not the real moral objection they have.

I think it's fine that they have their moral convictions and choose to live their life by them. I have my own moral convictions. I don't think it's wrong to eat meat. I think it's even better to go out and kill your own.

 

[Mobyseven]

Well, fortunately, it's not based on what other people think of me, but what I think of that idiot. I really wanted there to be one more meat eater in the world just because of this person.

Way to prove my point, btw.

I was vegetarian because I wanted to. Now I'm not, because that's what I want now. It really is as easy as that.

I made the decision to switch when I heard the same lame argument put forward in an arrogant and overbearing manner just once too many. I didn't care much either way.

I'm certainly not changing my mind again because some lame-o on the internet claims it's "sad", so your little dig was quite unsuccesful. Any thoughts I had of revisiting are now postponed indefinitely.

Prove your point? What point? That you made a life decision with a crappy justification?

If you think my aim was to change your mind, you're wrong. If you think I'll be shattered because you're now proclaiming that you'll never be vegetarian again...well, quite frankly, I'd have to believe that you'd have reconsidered it otherwise to make any sort of a sting.

If someone is going to care that little about the ethics or impact of what they eat that they'll make decisions based on some kind of misplaced Internet spite...well, I can live with that person making arguments for the other team.

 

[Mobyseven]

False dichotomy? Things can be better, but I don't think they are so bad we should end meat production. How "good" would things have to be before we are "right" to eat meat? This is why I disagree with the environmental arguement against meat consumption. If I could completely clean up meat production, vegans would still be against eating things with faces. The environmental arguement is convenient to them but it's not the real moral objection they have.

That's the thing though: there are some people I know who probably would eat meat if there was less environmental impact. Not many -- most of the vegetarians and vegans I know also have ethical objections to eating meat, myself included -- but a few.

It's not a false dichotomy either -- there is, obviously, a sliding scale as to how bad or good things could be. For each person there is going to be a tipping point, at which they decide they now can/can't eat meat. The point is, by saying that it's okay to do so now, we're setting the bar extremely (and I'd say unacceptably) low.

I think it's fine that they have their moral convictions and choose to live their life by them. I have my own moral convictions. I don't think it's wrong to eat meat. I think it's even better to go out and kill your own.

Here we differ: I do think it's wrong to eat meat. However, I'd still agree with the proposition that (given certain restrictions) it's better to go and kill your own food.

Moral considerations generally aren't black and white. I find factory farming abhorrent; I find that hunting for food is a context dependent situation that I can't make an overarching call on.

In short: I can conceive of situations in which I may not find eating meat to be morally wrong, but I find that in general these situations are not ones that actually come up in my everyday life nor the lives of a large majority of the Western world.