I never made that claim though. I never said anything about what meat eaters say about vegetarian diets, I said they claim "positive" things about their own omnivorous diet ie. variety, choice, freedom etc.
But my point is that their version of "preachy" NEVER talks about their own diet. It ALWAYS makes comment on mine.
Like I said that's your experience and I don't doubt it. I really can't comment on why your experience is like that because I don't know how you present yourself. The best way would be to ask a friend.
I'm not sure if you meant to do this, but what you have said here sort of sounds like it was meant to poison the well: it sounds like you believe my experience to be unlike the experience of the majority of vegetarians, in that meat eaters have made negative comments regarding my diet, (as opposed to positive ones regarding theirs, as you have posited they do) and that somehow my behavior is CAUSING the negative experiences I have encountered. I hope that is not what you are trying to imply. AT the very least, you should have noticed that other vegetarians in this thread have reported the exact same experiences, so it's not just how I'm presenting myself.
^this
I'd add that [preachy] vegetarians aren't happy with the way things are and want to change things. There's nothing stopping a person from going vegetarian. There aren't meat eaters protesting vegetarian dishes at restaurants. Meat eaters aren't boycotting vegetables. For whatever reasons that also comes off as negative and "preachy".
eta: although I maintain the main reason for the "preachy" label comes about because of the morality issues
Oh, good. I understand your position.
I think you're wrong.
Now, so far I've made no claim to counter yours. Let me do so.
I believe that the percentage of vegetarians who bother others about their food choices is approximately equal to the percentage of meat eaters who do the same. Further, I think both of those are about the same as the percentage of people as a whole who make rude comments about the choices of people they're not married to("dude, woah, do you need all that soda?" "That cigarette is going to give you lung cancer." "I'll bet you'll regret that tattoo."). In other words, I think there's a minority of people who are just rude pricks.
However, since the population of omnivores in this country is far greater than the population of vegetarians, that would mean there is a far greater actual number of people being pricks toward vegetarians than vegetarians being pricks. This fits with my experience: I get the rolled eyes and unsolicited advice fairly regularly, whereas, if we look in this thread, there is only one actual cited incident of a meat eater's daughter getting lip from a vegan.
However, as you say, there is the PERCEPTION in this culture that vegetarians, as a bunch, display a higher than average tendency to preach (that is, to be a dick). You think, as far as I understand it, that this is inaccurate but think that the reason for the discrepancy is that people mostly see meat-eaters as inclusive rather than exclusive.
Here I disagree. I think it's just an inaccurate perception, driven by a cultural meme, because vegetarians are still an "other" that it is acceptable to malign.
Further, I think it stems from the fact that most people don't think about their actions much. They go along, doing pretty much what their parents did, and don't examine their own beliefs or actions to any great degree. When encountered by people who DO think about their beliefs and actions, they get defensive. Skeptics are a great example. We get accused of cynicism and ruining mystery and thinking too much and curmudgeon-itude, because those who don't bother to examine their lives get defensive in the face of people who DO examine them. Academics in general get the same thing-- dismissed as nerds, for example, who care about things that no one else gives a crap about. Feminists. Environmentalists. Whenever people think a lot about something, they get crap from people who don't and are dismissed as irritating and no fun.
Vegetarianism is just one more instance of that. Because it's a change from the norm, and often a change from the way one was raised, it is something one has to think about. (This is not to say that all vegetarians come to be vegetarians based on reason and logic. You can think a lot about something and still make uncritical decisions.) If I am correct, then just saying simply, and without judgment, "I am a vegetarian" is, to someone who has not thought about his or her food choices, a perceived attack. They get defensive, believing that you MUST be judging them.
And cultural memes are created by the majority in the culture. They perceive vegetarians to be judgmental/preachy because of their own biases, and thus they create and perpetuate that meme. Others (perhaps others who in other circumstances might be a little more skeptical <cough>) then see this meme and accept it on its face. You giving Fry and Lisa as "evidence" for real-life preachy vegetarians actually fits my model veeery nicely.
Of course, my idea can be falsified. As a prediction of my hypothesis, I believe that the majority of people who believe vegetarians to be preachy have not, in fact, been preached at by a significant number of vegetarians (if any).
One more thing: the preachy activist thing is really prevalent in late teens and early 20's. This isn't about what they're activists about, though: they'll be annoying dicks about it whether they're preaching vegetarianism or Objectivism. So I also want you to think about the age of any vegetarians who did, in fact, preach at you. Were they about 20? Then maybe you should consider re-categorizing them from "preachy vegetarian" to "preachy whippersnappers."
You obviously missed the point. citizenzen said people don't believe vegetarians are preachy, I said yes they do. He didn't say it's not his fault, he flat out denied people feel this way.
