• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Vegans cause animals to go extinct?

hodgy said:
We would not recommend keeping a cat that is used to going outside, as an ‘indoor-only cat’ ...
Click to expand...


I don't disagree with this.

The key phrase there being "used to going outside".

Cats not used to going outside are best kept indoors.

It's better for the cat. It's better for the birds.
 
cowuses.jpg
 
Consider the wild Auroch. This is the animal from which domestic cattle derived. They were HUGE and MEAN and have been extinct for a few hundred years because they cannot coexist with man.

If demand for meat and leather dropped to zero, do you think any domestic cattle would continue to exist except in zoos?
 
bottsranzee makes a good point.

Just think of the alternative industries that would be created if we overcame our addiction to beef.

Who knew vegans could be so stimulating to the economy?
 
BenBurch said:
Consider the wild Auroch. This is the animal from which domestic cattle derived. They were HUGE and MEAN and have been extinct for a few hundred years because they cannot coexist with man.

If demand for meat and leather dropped to zero, do you think any domestic cattle would continue to exist except in zoos?
Click to expand...

I've always liked the idea of reintroducing large fauna to North America. Granted, in part because of the coolness factor, but also because it is better than zoos. There's room for cows and such in that, though we'd have to dedomesticate them.

citizenzen said:
bottsranzee makes a good point.

Just think of the alternative industries that would be created if we overcame our addiction to beef.

Who knew vegans could be so stimulating to the economy?
Click to expand...

I kind of doubt this is going to happen. More likely we'll be growing beef artificially like we will do with human organs. This will likely happen in a couple decades, whereas it would take longer than that for a significant fraction of the population to go vegan.
 
citizenzen said:
bottsranzee makes a good point.

Just think of the alternative industries that would be created if we overcame our addiction to beef.

Who knew vegans could be so stimulating to the economy?
Click to expand...

You lost me here. You realize all these other industries are already out there using these cattle byproducts after they are slaughtered; right?
 
Consider this in the argument - If everyone became vegan tomorrow, what would happen to the animals already in production? Ive often wondered if there are people out there thinking they would be released to dance in fields of lilies. The reality is, if consumerisim wants to keep making its money, those animals have to be slaughtered as quickly as possible and discarded to make way for the vegetable crops.

The Earth cannot support 6 billion vegans. Animals we have so far not touched would be wiped out as we made way for the vegetable crops. Thats just my humble opinion based on 20 years living on the land. Managing land is hard, balancing all the species to create optimum performance for the longest possible time. Farmers (good ones) dont do things without a good reason.

Of course, the earth cant support 6 billion hunter gatherers either, this is why we invented feedlots. The system is not perfect, and sometimes seeing row upon row of dead cow in the supermarket makes me ill. We need a focus on using everything we kill, on conservation of all life and a happy life for the animal, where at the end we thank it for its sacrifice by letting nothing go to waste.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Well, just because we're not eating cattle doesn't mean we can't use them for leather right?
Click to expand...

Clearly we need to start breeding cattle specifically for leather. They should be lean, but with massive flaps of loose skin.
 
I'm vegan-ish in that I don't eat any obvious meat, eggs or dairy. I don't like to call myself vegan, because some vegans and vegetarians are a bit over the top regarding not wanting people to use their words "wrong".

I'm not anti hunting, though, I'm just anti factory farms.
 
Ben Burch said:
If demand for meat and leather dropped to zero, do you think any domestic cattle would continue to exist except in zoos?
Click to expand...

I assume you meant to include dairy as well.

In which case: No, but I don't see why anyone should care. Species go extinct all the time. A domesticated animal that is of no value going extinct is hardly concerning.

bottsranzee said:
What about the killing of the vegetable plants!? Stop the vegans!
Click to expand...

You're not really claiming killing plants is an ethical problem, are you?

First of all, pain, suffering, fear, desire for freedom, yada yada yada; these are all functions of the brain. There is no evidence that plants, or any other brainless entities (e.g. brainless animals like sponges, rocks, soda cans, etcetera) are capable of experiencing pain, or experiencing anything, for that matter. You might come back with "but we don't know for sure!" This is correct. We also don't know for sure if there are invisible unicorns orbitting the Earth who go through agonizing torture every time you masturbate. Without evidence it would be foolish to act as if either of these things were true.

Additionally, following a vegan diet kills less plants. So even if killing plants were cruel (which it isn't), veganism would be the best way to go.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the people who argue animals will go extinct if we stop farming them wouldn't actually care (ethically) if these species were to go extinct, and the people who argue that vegs are mean to plants don't actually care about people being to plants.
 
Last edited:
cornsail said:
You're not really claiming killing plants is an ethical problem, are you?

First of all, pain, suffering, fear, desire for freedom, yada yada yada; these are all functions of the brain. There is no evidence that plants, or any other brainless entities (e.g. brainless animals like sponges, rocks, soda cans, etcetera) are capable of experiencing pain, or experiencing anything, for that matter. You might come back with "but we don't know for sure!" This is correct. We also don't know for sure if there are invisible unicorns orbitting the Earth who go through agonizing torture every time you masturbate. Without evidence it would be foolish to act as if either of these things were true.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows it's not the unicorns that get tortured. :rolleyes:

kitten.jpg


Why do some people care so much about the how the animals "feel"? The way the world is today other humans are barely cared for.
 
bottsranzee said:
Why do some people care so much about the how the animals "feel"? The way the world is today other humans are barely cared for.
Click to expand...


I think caring for animals is an indicator of our capacity for compassion and empathy.

Compassion and empathy for animals does diminish it being felt for humans. I would argue the opposite. The more compassion and empathy one has, the more likely it is spread to both animals and humans.
 
Last edited:
citizenzen said:
I think caring for animals is an indicator of our capacity for compassion and empathy.

Compassion and empathy for animals does diminish it being felt for humans. I would argue the opposite. The more compassion and empathy one has, the more likely it is spread to both animals and humans.
Click to expand...

Good point, I will agree with you on that to a point.
 
bottsranzee said:
Dessi said:
bottsranzee said:
Why do some people care so much about the how the animals "feel"?
Click to expand...
Because its not possible to be a vegetarian and a humanitarian at the same time?
Click to expand...
Why not?
Click to expand...
"What not?" is sort of the point I was trying to get across about your first comment.

In other words, "humans are still in pain" is not really a meaningful criticism of people who care about animal rights. People can care about both at the same time.
 
bottsranzee said:
Why do some people care so much about the how the animals "feel"?
Click to expand...

It's pretty basic empathy. I don't see why this should be hard to understand.

Also, personal responsibility, because I don't want to pay for animals to go through awful treatment in factory farms when I don't have to.

The way the world is today other humans are barely cared for.
Click to expand...

Me eating a vegan diet doesn't make me care any less about humans. Actually it's better for humans in terms of environmental pollution and food efficiency.

ETA:

bottsranzee said:
Good point, I will agree with you on that to a point.
Click to expand...

Missed this. Nevermind then.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom