Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[332nd]

This ought to be good. What did you do?

My son & his grand kids were all vaccinated in the same room, same time, same bottle. (different needles of course.)

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore: Why do US children need a vaccinaton study just for them

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/02/...s.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e20147e0324398970b

Wow, Clayton Moore: you do not realize that thet crank Age of Autism is idiotically demanding that a US study be done despite the existing evidence that vaccines have no causal relationship withy autism !
Maybe they are so deluded that they think that US children are somehow different from the rest of the human species .

This reflects your previous demands that US studies be done. So:
Clayton Moore:
What makes US children so different from the children in the rest of the world that a study needs to be done just for them?
First asked 12 November 2013. 0 days and counting.

I am sure though that you will stick with this delusion and not answer it as you are persisting in: Clayton Moore's 32 statements and 251 days of ignorance and delusion!

1. Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
   First asked 4 March 2013 - 251 days and counting!
2. Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
   First asked 8 April 2013 - many days and counting
3. Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
   First asked 8 April 2013 - many days and counting
4. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - many days and counting
5. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - many days and counting
6. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - many days and counting
7. Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
   First asked 18 April 2013 - many days and counting
8. Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
   First asked 26th April 2013 - many days and counting
9. Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
   First asked 30th April 2013 - many days and counting
10. Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
    First asked 14 May 2013 - many days and counting
11. Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
    First asked 15 May 2013 - many days and counting
12. Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
    First asked 24 May 2013 - many days and counting
13. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
    First asked 10 June 2013 - many days and counting
14. Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
    Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
    First asked 13 June 2013 - many days and counting
15. Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
    First asked 14 June 2013 - many days and counting
16. Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
    This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
    First asked 17 June 2013 - many days and counting
17. Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
    First asked 24 June 2013 - many days and counting
18. Clayton Moore, Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"
    First asked 25 June 2013 - many days and counting
19. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
    First asked 25 June 2013 - many days and counting
20. The delusion of citing an upcoming film from an ignorant, paranoid anit-vaxer (Jeff Hays interviews the quack Andrew Wakefield!)
21. The delusion that there are mysterious "additives" in vaccines that harm children.
    Clayton Moore, Please supply a list of the current additives to vaccines that have been shown to harm children.
    Or is this just another of the paranoid, ignorant delusions that you have been infected by xtongue) from the crazy web sites that you get your information from?
    First asked 2 July 2013 - many days and counting.
22. Clayton Moore: Does ASD have the same symptoms as mercury or lead poisoning?
    (they do not as anyone who can read cane find out)
    First asked 18 July 2013 - many days and counting.
23. Clayton Moore: do you have the fantasy that vaccines contain lead?
    First asked 18 July 2013 - many days and counting.
24. Clayton Moore: Do you think that autism is an autoimmune disease?
    First asked 19 July 2013 - many days and counting.
25. Clayton Moore,
    What is your evidence that the CDC is in "minionship to drug and vaccine companies"?
    First asked 26 July 2013 - many days and counting.
26. Clayton Moore: Do you not know that vaccines have side-effects?
    First asked 16 September 2013 - many days and counting.
    That is the only reason that I can see why you are rather insanely trying to list every person in the world that has ever had a vaccine side-effect !
27. Clayton Moore
    What is your evidence that only vaccines "are destabilizing millions of years of human evolution"?
    First asked 17 September 2013. many days and counting.
    It is almost as you are unaware that modern agriculture, civil works (sewers, etc.), medicine, etc. exist!
    Clayton Moore: For that matter what does "destabilizing" mean in evolutionary terms? Evolution almost by definition is not stable!
28. Clayton Moore: What is your evidence that this paper is "fabricated propaganda"?
    First asked 17 September 2013. many days and counting.
29. Clayton Moore: What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death?
    First asked 23 September 2013 - many days and counting.
    So far you are just parroting a web site where the parents mourning the tragedy of an undetermined cause of death are desperately fantasizing a cause for that death.
30. Clayton Moore, can you recognize your citation of an ignorant and paranoiac person?
    First asked 1 October 2013: many days and counting.
31. Clayton Moore: Do you understand that GWS is not caused by squalene in the vaccines?
    First asked 17th October 2013: many days and counting.
32. Clayton Moore, what % of the rich and doctors do not vaccinate their children?
    First asked 31st October 2013. 12 days and counting.

Some other idiocy:

• Thinking that vaccines can "destabilize" evolution.
• Insulting the father of a child and the judge in a trial about vaccination: The father and judge are idiots according to Clayton Moore.
  This is doubly insane since Clayton Moore has stated before that he is not against vaccination.

 

[000063]

It's a bit sad and touching. Like seeing somebody talking to themselves on the street.

When it comes to that sort of touching, it's best to call the police.

Do you know what a hint is?

Something commonly used by you to evade backing up your claims or making any real points. Yes, we're well aware. For example;

So Dr. Oz says he believes in vaccines(his wife doesn't). Dr. Oz says/implies his wife has the final say on whether their children are vaccinated.

So you're saying that Dr. Oz's children do get the vaccines? In spite of his wife's negative view of vaccines?

ahhahahahahahahah


As far as your doctor, what snake oil profiteer doesn't say his family ingests his snake oil?

So... why should I/we take your doctor at his word?

So, to answer the question, you only believe doctors when convenient, and are willing to accuse millions upon millions of doctors, for decades, of lying.

Of course, all you would need would be some doctor's kids who said their dad lied about vaccinating them. Well, dad or mom, you sexist.

This ought to be good. What did you do?

You're wandering afield, Clay. Almost as if you were trying to deflect.

What I'm saying is Dr. Oz stated publicly his wife rules the roost as to whether their children are vaccinated.

Amazing how you jumped from "says/implies" to "publicly stated". Looks like all uncertainty just...vanished.

I'm saying that doctors who don't have the final parental say on whether their kids are vaccinated don't vaccinate their kids.

No, you all but stated that doctors are lying. Previously, you explicitly stated it. And now you're backpedalling.

If I am right, and a doctor to boot,

Both seem unlikely.

Moreover, you can overrule your spouse whether or not you're a doctor, whether or not you're right.

aahhahahahahhahaha

Appeals to ridicule and ignorance.

By the way. I happen to consider it racist to jude the study on nationality rather than evidence and accuracy. Feel free to correct me if you have a valid reason to do so. None has ever been provided in this thread.

Not racist, just goalpost moving. Problem is, he's moved them off a cliff.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Selective/delayed vaccinated children actually performed worse for numerous measurements than fully-vaccinated children but weren't statistically-significant in subsequent analyses. You don't hear the science crowd crowing that vaccines protect children contrary to anti-vaxx nutters lying about studies. This was done in the U.S. with U.S. children and the investigators did this study on their own time and dime.

I don't even have to use the link to understand what Selective/delayed means.

 

[Polaris]

There have been no studies of unvaccinated children.

They're called childhood mortality rates before the invention of vaccines.

 

[Kestrel]

In 2012, a local court in Italy ruled that Autism was caused by vaccines. The ruling was based mostly on the long discredited Lancet article. Does anyone here know if this ruling has been overturned on appeal?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

In 2012, a local court in Italy ruled that Autism was caused by vaccines. The ruling was based mostly on the long discredited Lancet article. Does anyone here know if this ruling has been overturned on appeal?

Who cares? It's an Italian court.

Another "science based" ruling from an Italian court:

Six scientists and a government official were sentenced to six years in prison for manslaughter by an Italian court on Monday for failing to give adequate warning of an earthquake that killed more than 300 people in L’Aquila in 2009.

 

[Kestrel]

Who cares? It's an Italian court.

Another "science based" ruling from an Italian court:

The autism claim seems to be making the rounds once again on forums like Facebook. If the ruling was overturned, it would be a nice point for debunking this CT.

If not, I am also keeping a list of absurd Italian court rulings.

 

[Clayton Moore]

They're called childhood mortality rates before the invention of vaccines.

That's brilliant.

 

[Dcdrac]

so Mr Moore you proof autism has specific national traits any evidence for that?

 

[Tomtomkent]

That's brilliant.

The choice of smiley suggests you think this data is invalid. Why? Can it not be used in a retrospective or meta study of patient records? Surely if it can be shown that the key event in the (claimed and non existant) rise in recognised cases of autism is not the introduction of vaccination but the improved diagnosis of autism, would that not entirely undermine your own claims and assure you that vaccination is safe?

 

[Clayton Moore]

The choice of smiley suggests you think this data is invalid. Why? Can it not be used in a retrospective or meta study of patient records? Surely if it can be shown that the key event in the (claimed and non existant) rise in recognised cases of autism is not the introduction of vaccination but the improved diagnosis of autism, would that not entirely undermine your own claims and assure you that vaccination is safe?

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by an 1850 measles outbreak?

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by an 1950 measles outbreak?

 

[Border Reiver]

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by 1850 measles outbreak?

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by 1950 measles outbreak?

No, because we vaccinate against Measles outbreaks on the scales above are not going to happen.

Localized outbreaks (such as the one that occurred in Great Britain) occurred because people stopped getting the vaccinations done - mostly due to ex-Dr. Wakefield and the study he faked to push his own vaccine.

 

[Dcdrac]

No Todays modern medicine would not be overwhelemd becauae vaccines are used as PREVENTATIVE medicine as in preventing outbreaks by helping people become immune.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by an 1850 measles outbreak?

Do you think today's modern medicine would be overwhelmed by an 1950 measles outbreak?

You don't seem to have addressed the points raised. I wonder why you would quote something then ask unrelated questions?

But to answer your questions "No, because vaccination happens". As has been pointed out, modern outbreaks are where herd immunity have dropped.

Now howabout you answer my questions?

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, because we vaccinate against Measles outbreaks on the scales above are not going to happen.

Localized outbreaks (such as the one that occurred in Great Britain) occurred because people stopped getting the vaccinations done - mostly due to ex-Dr. Wakefield and the study he faked to push his own vaccine.

You can't insinuate vaccines into your answer. No wonder you can't understand the danger of vaccines.

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton

Still waiting for any shred of evidence that

MMR causes autism
Vaccines casue asthama
US children have some special form of autism that no one else gets
Evolution is somehow magically getting moprhed by vaccines

So far NONE forthcoming from you.

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton

Still waiting for any shred of evidence that

MMR causes autism
Vaccines casue asthama
US children have some special form of autism that no one else gets
Evolution is somehow magically getting moprhed by vaccines

So far NONE forthcoming from you.

 

[Clayton Moore]

You don't seem to have addressed the points raised. I wonder why you would quote something then ask unrelated questions?

But to answer your questions "No, because vaccination happens". As has been pointed out, modern outbreaks are where herd immunity have dropped.

Now howabout you answer my questions?

Oh brother.

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton the outbreak of measles was caused directly by people beleiving the fraud wakefields claims in his thoroughly discredited paper, net result some deaths and totally preventable suffering.

The real dangers inthe field of vaccination is people NOT getting vaccinated for easily preventable diseases like measles.