Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Clayton Moore]

What I want is for common sense to prevail.

You can't say that a single aspirin is dangerous for children and at the same time advocate and insist an infant be pumped with 8 vaccines in one session.

Step back and think about it.

There are so many additional substances accompanying vaccines that the immune system must deal with and evacuate. The vaccine premise is simple. A weakened or dead virus signals the immune system to create antibodies to fight the virus and possible future encounters with it.



Don't you find it strange that parent after parent, year after year, says a week or so after the MMR shot their baby becomes autistic?

Don't you find it difficult to believe that all of medical science can't figure out what autistic toddlers worldwide have in common?

The problem isn't the vaccine concept. The problem is the accompanying substances. It should be obvious in 2012 that the more accompanying substances pumped in to a toddlers body the more dangerous the ever increasing child vaccine schedule becomes.

My first concern with vaccines was the frequency and the combo vaccines.
Now I see the foreign substances not the vaccine concept are the cause of autism and an increasingly medically dependent and sickly population.

I really don't know. I know my dad lost a couple of friends to childhood illnesses, and, if I'm not mistaken, my mom lost a cousin to polio. These diseases really did suck a bag of tar, and I don't think anyone who has actually lived through them or has known anyone who has lived through them is eager for their return.

Originally Posted by dafydd View Post

Don't be so silly. When I was a child mothers would expose their children to the childhood diseases so the kids would catch them as early in their life as possible. If a kid in our street had say the measles and you hadn't caught it yet you were packed off to play with the child. It was a form of vaccination. Your zero research policy is not doing you any favours.

It seems those two agree with me about the childhood diseases.

 

[Dcdrac]

Mr Moore please provide your indpendently verified evidence that MMR causes Autism and also your indepdently verified clinical research and experimentation into vaccines in general.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Okay, I think I might have figured out what Moore's talking about with regards to childhood diseases. I think it goes something like this:

1) Which diseases count as "childhood diseases" consists of whatever comes to mind when you tell the term "childhood diseases" to a parent.

2) What counts as a childhood disease doesn't change over time.

3) Current day parents don't think of polio when told the the phrase "childhood disease".

4) Thus, polio has never been considered a childhood disease.

Or, to put it another way, if polio had ever been considered a childhood disease, then polio would cross the minds of current day parents when "childhood diseases" was mentioned, despite the fact that in the current day it's extremely rare for anyone in a developed nation to ever catch polio.

So, Moore, am I getting warmer?

No. THE childhood diseases were the three parents wanted their children to get before grade school was over.

 

[The Palmernator]

Rubella is a type of measles hence the name German Measles.

All my friends named Bill have signed a waiver that allows me to not call them by their full proper name.

A few of my friends insisted I sign a contract mandating that I don't call them by their full proper name.

BTW FYI
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/german_measles.html

Since the danger is to unborn babies what's the rush with the vaccine? Why not just require it for every 10 year old girl?

Tell me more about how Measles and Rubella are the same, even though they are completely different diseases?

 

[Tomtomkent]

No. THE childhood diseases were the three parents wanted their children to get before grade school was over.

according to which definition?

 

[crhkrebs]

You tell me.

We weren't making the stupid claim in the first place, Clayton. It DOESN'T!

You were the one making the claim. Show us the evidence that supports your claim that MMR causes autism OR admit that you have no such evidence.

Have some integrity and do the right thing. Deal with this question.

 

[The Palmernator]

Rubella is a type of measles hence the name German Measles.

All my friends named Bill have signed a waiver that allows me to not call them by their full proper name.

A few of my friends insisted I sign a contract mandating that I don't call them by their full proper name.

BTW FYI
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/german_measles.html

Since the danger is to unborn babies what's the rush with the vaccine? Why not just require it for every 10 year old girl?

And from the website you quote in your own post:

About Rubella
Rubella — commonly known as German measles or 3-day measles — is an infection that primarily affects the skin and lymph nodes. It is caused by the rubella virus (not the same virus that causes measles), which is usually transmitted by droplets from the nose or throat that others breathe in. It can also pass through a pregnant woman's bloodstream to infect her unborn child.

So your own source tells you that measles and german measles are not the same thing...

Also, the site goes on to say:

Before a vaccine against rubella became available in 1969, rubella epidemics occurred every 6-9 years, most often among kids 5 to 9 years old. Many cases of congenital rubella occurred as well. Thanks to immunization, there are far fewer cases of rubella and congenital rubella.

Your own sources state that childhood immunisation is a good thing.

Also, if as you suggest children aged 10 are vaccinated, how will that help if it is mostly 5 - 9 year olds who get the virus?

 

[Tolls]

And from the website you quote in your own post:



So your own source tells you that measles and german measles are not the same thing...

CM Fails To Read Own Links Shocker!

 

[dafydd]

CM Fails To Read Own Links Shocker!

That is not news. He's always shooting himself in the foot with his links. I wonder why he does it?

 

[jdc324]

That is not news. He's always shooting himself in the foot with his links. I wonder why he does it?

Are we absolutely sure he isn't a stooge trying to discredit anti-vaxxers?

 

[dafydd]

Are we absolutely sure he isn't a stooge trying to discredit anti-vaxxers?

The longer this goes on the more I think that could be true.

 

[catsmate]

...... And diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough .....

And whooping cough/pertussis. I had that one as a kid because of a vaccine scare back in the seventies.

 

[Matthew Cline]

No. THE childhood diseases were the three parents wanted their children to get before grade school was over.

Okay, so the definition of "childhood diseases" is "diseases parents want their children to get before grade school was over". How do you derive that definition from the phrase "childhood disease"?

And whooping cough/pertussis. I had that one as a kid because of a vaccine scare back in the seventies.

I'm don't think that counts as a childhood disease, since adults can get it just as easily as children. It is more severe in young children than in those who are older, so it's more important for young children to get vaccinated against it.

 

[Giordano]

I'm don't think that counts as a childhood disease, since adults can get it just as easily as children. It is more severe in young children than in those who are older, so it's more important for young children to get vaccinated against it.

Pertussis is listed in most of the compilations of childhood diseases I've encountered, and was certainly among those considered childhood diseases among my parent's generation. I suspect because it is, just as you say, more severe and dangerous in young children. Also the characteristic whoop to the cough is less evident in adults, so it often is not diagnosed as pertussis in the adult population.

 

[ehcks]

I'm don't think that counts as a childhood disease, since adults can get it just as easily as children. It is more severe in young children than in those who are older, so it's more important for young children to get vaccinated against it.

Actually, the people pertussis is most dangerous to are too young to get the vaccine. It is important for adults to get it, especially if they're ever around babies.

 

[zooterkin]

Are we absolutely sure he isn't a stooge trying to discredit anti-vaxxers?

Could be, though wouldn't that be a rather unnecessary exercise?

 

[000063]

Because I'm much more intelligent than most here.

AAHHAHAHAH

Odd. That was precisely my reaction to the first sentence too.

Anyone over 50 who can be depended upon to tell the truth will tell you that the term CHILDHOOD DISEASES refers to Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox.

So everyone who agrees with you is telling the truth. No one who disagrees with you could be simply mistaken.

A sea horse is a type of horse, hence the name "sea horse".

I sure am loving this White Chocolate.

 

[zooterkin]

Anyone over 50 who can be depended upon to tell the truth will tell you that the term CHILDHOOD DISEASES refers to Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox.

Are you calling me a liar?

 

[TsuDhoNimh]

The diseases of CHILDHOOD DISEASES in 1920 would be the same as the CHILDHOOD DISEASES of 1930, 1940, 1950, and 1960. A parent or an adult of those years would say mumps, measles, and chicken pox were the childhood diseases.

One again, you are wrong.

Diphtheria was a childhood disease:
Whooping cough was a childhood disease:
Scarlet fever was a childhood disease:

Polio was a childhood disease, emerging in the early 1900s and vanishing with the vaccine of the mid 1950s.

An epidemic of Measles, in an early medical book, killed one in twelve (8%) of the patients. The physician writing about it described it as "mild".

 

[TsuDhoNimh]

Anyone over 50 who can be depended upon to tell the truth will tell you that the term CHILDHOOD DISEASES refers to Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox.

the expected/dreaded diseases of children were:

During my grandmother's childhood: whooping cough, tuberculosis, measles, mumps, chicken pox, scarlet fever, rubella, diphtheria

During my mother's childhood: whooping cough, polio, rubella, measles, mumps, chicken pox, scarlet fever (diphtheria vaccine had been introduced and was widely used)

During MY childhood: polio, chickenpox, measles, rubella, mumps, scarlet fever (I was one of the test subjects for the polio vaccine, remember the intro of the measles vaccine, was an early recipient of the whooping cough vaccine, had a friend die of cardiac arrest caused by scarlet fever)

Of those diseases, scarlet fever decreased without vaccines - it was the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s-50s and a change in the predominant strain of the strep that caused it. Pasteurizing milk also helped: it's a common cause of mastitis in dairy cows.

Tuberculosis decreased with anti-tuberculosis drugs, pasteurization of milk, testing cows for TB, and massive public health campaigns.

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Check textbooks of pediatric medicine for the early and mid-1900s ... they will show you the morbidity and mortality of the diseases.