Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Robrob]

No he doesn't. It's alright for you and yours to sit on the wall. And he will swear to you that he and his sit on the wall. But they don't.

Between you, me and the lamp post, you don't sit on the wall either.

<SNIP>

My father was a pediatrician (retired now). Growing up he gave us all the usual vaccinations and then some. No getting around flu season, etc... My brother hated shots but Dad always made sure we were up to date.

<SNIP>

SNIPed, multiple breach of rule 0, rule 12.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[332nd]

No he doesn't.

Sorry, but he does.

Why do you feel the need to make things up?

 

[Clayton Moore]

<SNIP>

My father was a pediatrician (retired now). Growing up he gave us all the usual vaccinations and then some. No getting around flu season, etc... My brother hated shots but Dad always made sure we were up to date.

<SNIP>.

Edited by Locknar: 

Moderated content removed.

Really? You're 30 or 40 years old

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

The 1970s: Vaccine success

During the 1970s, one less vaccine was used than during the previous decade. Because of successful eradication efforts, the smallpox vaccine was no longer recommended for use after 1971. While vaccine research continued, new vaccines were not introduced during the 1970s.
Time Frame Recommended Vaccines

By Late 1970s

Diphtheria*
Tetanus* Pertussis*
Polio (OPV) Measles**
Mumps** Rubella**

* Given in combination as DTP
** Given in combination as MMR
Vaccine Development in the 1980s: Hepatitis B and Haemophilus influenzae type b

The vaccine for Haemophilus influenzae type b was licensed in 1985 and was recommended on the schedule published in 1989. When the schedule was published again in 1994, the hepatitis B vaccine had been added. The hepatitis B vaccine was not new, as it had been licensed in 1981; however, between its licensure and 1990, the vaccine was recommended only for high-risk sub-groups of the population, such as infants of hepatitis B surface antigen-positive mothers, healthcare workers, intravenous drug users, homosexual men and people with multiple sexual partners. However, immunization of high-risk groups didn't effectively stop transmission of the hepatitis B virus. That’s because about one-third of patients with acute disease were not in identifiable risk groups. The change of recommendation to immunize all infants was the result of these failed attempts to control hepatitis B by only immunizing high-risk groups and to prevent the cases that occurred in individuals not identified as high risk (which accounted for about one-third of all cases).

Your schedule was minuscule in comparison to today's.

Your dad likely gave you 1 shot at a time, Never 8 in one visit.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

This info is a very telling before and after.

By the mid-1980s, there were seven vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Because six of these vaccines were combined into two shots (DTP and MMR), and one, the polio vaccine, was given by mouth, children still received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.

Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit. The result is that the vaccine schedule has become much more complicated than it once was, and children are receiving far more shots than before (see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?).

However, help is on the way.

There it is Researchers are concerned that vaccines weaken the immune system.

Researchers are concerned that vaccines overwhelm the immune system.

Help is on the way?


That's not me saying Houston we have a problem and help is on the way, that's The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia saying Houston we have a problem.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Nice lie-by-omission, Clayton.
(see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?)

Note: the blue text above is a link. Click the link. On the pages the link leads to you will find answers to those two questions. Too lazy to click and read? I'll summarize: NO and NO.

Your statements:

There it is Researchers are concerned that vaccines weaken the immune system.

Researchers are concerned that vaccines overwhelm the immune system.

are both false. The hospital is providing information to readers of a website who may be concerned that vaccines weaken or overwhelm the immune system. Web developers are not "Researchers." You may not know this, but there's a whole world of knowledge OFF the web -- where actual research is done. By "researchers." They publish papers in peer-reviewed journals, as opposed too posting a vaguely worded link on a web page.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Nice lie-by-omission, Clayton.
(see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?)

Note: the blue text above is a link. Click the link. On the pages the link leads to you will find answers to those two questions. Too lazy to click and read? I'll summarize: NO and NO.

Your statements:
are both false. The hospital is providing information to readers of a website who may be concerned that vaccines weaken or overwhelm the immune system. Web developers are not "Researchers." You may not know this, but there's a whole world of knowledge OFF the web -- where actual research is done. By "researchers." They publish papers in peer-reviewed journals, as opposed too posting a vaguely worded link on a web page.

Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit. The result is that the vaccine schedule has become much more complicated than it once was, and children are receiving far more shots than before (see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?). However, help is on the way. Vaccines are again in the process of being combined in the same way that the DTaP and MMR vaccines are already combined. The following combinations of vaccines are now available:

Sorry Things without substance don't get brought up and get followed up with However, help is on the way.

Your father wouldn't think of giving you more that one shot per visit. Doctors knew better until Big Pharma's greed overruled common sense in medicine.

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton because you cling to some ill informed fantasy about vaccines that does not in anyway disprove the simple fact the at least two centuries of evidence of their use day to day shows vaccination and vaccines are highly effective.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton because you cling to some ill informed fantasy about vaccines that does not in anyway disprove the simple fact the at least two centuries of evidence of their use day to day shows vaccination and vaccines are highly effective.

The fantasy is that the current 26 vaccine schedule in an infant's first 15 months could possibly be safe.

 

[mikado]

I haven't followed this thread at all, but I had whooping cough about 4 or 5 years ago.
I was so ill that I wrote a strongly worded letter to my local paper, basically saying if your baby was unlucky enough to be as ill as I was, they could well die.
It has left me with lifelong lung issues.
I am particularly not good today, and , as I feel terrible today, I am just astounded that people in this day and age can still argue against vaccination.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, and IT IS TOTALLY PREVENTABLE.
Absolutely outrageous.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I haven't followed this thread at all, but I had whooping cough about 4 or 5 years ago.
I was so ill that I wrote a strongly worded letter to my local paper, basically saying if your baby was unlucky enough to be as ill as I was, they could well die.
It has left me with lifelong lung issues.
I am particularly not good today, and , as I feel terrible today, I am just astounded that people in this day and age can still argue against vaccination.
I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, and IT IS TOTALLY PREVENTABLE.
Absolutely outrageous.

Are you saying your vaccination didn't work?

 

[mikado]

No, I'm saying that MY Mother was an anti vax nut. In doing so, I now have a life long health issue.
In my opinion people who promulgate lies about vaccination should be charged with endangering other's lives.

 

[mikado]

And my other point is, for the general population to be protected by herd immunity, the level of general vaccination in the population does not need to drop by much.

 

[Arisia]

Someone has turned a corner that the rest of us really don't need to follow him around, I'd say.

I'm sorry to hear of your lifelong consequences from your mother's anti-vaxx position, Renmarkable. Indeed, I'm thinking it doesn't take much of a drop in vaccination rates for 'herd immunity' to suffer, based on the measles and whooping cough outbreaks we seem to see more frequently in the news. My daughter is up-to-date on everything, that's for sure, including the ones that are only recommended, not required.

 

[Robrob]

Really? You're 30 or 40 years old

Your schedule was minuscule in comparison to today's.

Your dad likely gave you 1 shot at a time, Never 8 in one visit.

So when your claim of "no doctor gives their children vaccinations" was debunked, you reset the goalposts to "no doctor gives their children a lot of vaccinations?"

 

[Belz...]

People have been pushing snake oil since a week after the onset of time.

People who ignore that history likely benefit from the sale of snake oil somewhere along dole line.

Are you saying that because there are frauds, you now assume that everyone is a fraud ?

Plus today no person of authority in the medical field participates themselves or their own in the vaccine carnage. I guarantee that.

You didn't answer my question. You just preached. I ask again:

Assuming your nonsense is actually true, how many people would die, in your opinion, of preventable diseases if we stopped vaccines entirely ? Or if you're not advocating that, what are you asking for ?

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Sorry Things without substance don't get brought up and get followed up with However, help is on the way.

You could try reading that statement in the context of the entire paragraph and parsing the statement correctly. You've misassigned meaning to the phrase.

The topic of this part of your linked page is how many different shots a child gets:

Combination Vaccines

In the early 1950s, there were four vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and smallpox. Because three of these vaccines were combined into a single shot (DTP), children received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.

By the mid-1980s, there were seven vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Because six of these vaccines were combined into two shots (DTP and MMR), and one, the polio vaccine, was given by mouth, children still received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.

Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit. The result is that the vaccine schedule has become much more complicated than it once was, and children are receiving far more shots than before (see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?). However, help is on the way. Vaccines are again in the process of being combined in the same way that the DTaP and MMR vaccines are already combined.

I've highlighted the parts of this that you need to read as one statement. The statement "help is on the way" is in response to the phrase "children are receiving more shots than before." The "help" that is "on the way" is "vaccines are in the process of being combined."

In other words, the vaccines developers are trying to reduce the number of shots by combining more shots into fewer serums, simplifying the shot schedule.

Your arm-flailing fearporn freakout parsing of this paragraph is exactly opposite what the paragraph actually means. Further, if you follow the link provided in that very paragraph and drill down a bit you will find the following:

each infant would have the capacity to respond to about 10,000 vaccines at any one time. Using this estimate, one would predict that if 11 vaccines were given to infants at one time, then about 0.1 percent of the immune system would be "used up."

and

in Germany, a study of 496 vaccinated and unvaccinated children found that children who received immunizations against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) and polio within the first three months of life had fewer infections with vaccine-related and unrelated pathogens than the non-vaccinated group.

I've bolded a couple of words in case you have as much trouble pulling information out of these short snippets as you did from the original paragraph.

 

[Reality Check]

Vaccines save millions of lives

...snipped the idiocy of citing YouTube videos as evidence for anything!...

Clayton Moore, your post suggests that you are ignorant of the basic facts about vaccines.
Vaccines save millions of lives.
Side effects of vaccines do cause a small number of deaths.

 

[Reality Check]

Clayton Moore's 25 statements and 196 days of ignorance and delusion.

Welcome back Clayton Moore.

1. Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.
   First asked 4 March 2013 - 196 days and counting!
2. Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
   First asked 8 April 2013 - 162 days and counting
3. Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
   First asked 8 April 2013 - 160 days and counting
4. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 160 days and counting
5. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 160 days and counting
6. Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
   First asked 10 April 2013 - 160 days and counting
7. Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
   First asked 18 April 2013 - 152 days and counting
8. Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
   First asked 26th April 2013 - 145 days and counting
9. Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
   First asked 30th April 2013 - 137 days and counting
10. Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
    First asked 14 May 2013 - 126 days and counting
11. Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
    First asked 15 May 2013 - 125 days and counting
12. Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
    First asked 24 May 2013 - 116 days and counting
13. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
    First asked 10 June 2013 - 98 days and counting
14. Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
    Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
    First asked 13 June 2013 - 97 days and counting
15. Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
    First asked 14 June 2013 - 95 days and counting
16. Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
    This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
    First asked 17 June 2013 - 91 days and counting
17. Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
    First asked 24 June 2013 - 84 days and counting
18. Clayton Moore, Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"
    First asked 25 June 2013 - 83 days and counting
19. Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
    First asked 25 June 2013 - 83 days and counting
20. The delusion of citing an upcoming film from an ignorant, paranoid anit-vaxer (Jeff Hays interviews the quack Andrew Wakefield!)
21. The delusion that there are mysterious "additives" in vaccines that harm children.
    Clayton Moore, Please supply a list of the current additives to vaccines that have been shown to harm children.
    Or is this just another of the paranoid, ignorant delusions that you have been infected by xtongue) from the crazy web sites that you get your information from?
    First asked 2 July 2013 - 76 days and counting.
22. Clayton Moore: Does ASD have the same symptoms as mercury or lead poisoning?
    (they do not as anyone who can read cane find out)
    First asked 18 July 2013 - 62 days and counting.
23. Clayton Moore: do you have the fantasy that vaccines contain lead?
    First asked 18 July 2013 - 62 days and counting.
24. Clayton Moore: Do you think that autism is an autoimmune disease?
    First asked 19 July 2013 - 61 days and counting.
25. Clayton Moore,
    What is your evidence that the CDC is in "minionship to drug and vaccine companies"?
    First asked 26 July 2013 - 58 days and counting.

 

[Reality Check]

Some random web site makes a claim

http://experimentalvaccines.org/2013/09/13/cvs-flu-shot-kills-23-seniors/

Some random web site makes a claim and you emphasis your ignorance of what is evidence by citing them, Clayton Moore !
Number 14 from Clayton Moore's 25 statements and 196 days of ignorance and delusion.

 

[jdc324]

Really? You're 30 or 40 years old

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine...ine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html



Your schedule was minuscule in comparison to today's.

Your dad likely gave you 1 shot at a time, Never 8 in one visit.

What about this Clayton:

Perhaps this might help: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16263976

Ninety-two percent of paediatricians followed the official immunization recommendations for their own children.

90% of non-paediatricians followed the official immunization recommendations.

Both groups gave additional vaccines (hepatitis A, influenza, and varicella vaccines), on top of those recommended, to their own children.

It's from 2005. Is that recent enough for you?