Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Clayton Moore]

Clayton, go to the nearest hospital.

Ask where the iron lung is.

Go ahead, I dare ya.

They said it was lodged in the gist of your posts.

 

[Travis]

In other words: you don't want to admit that almost completely eradicating Polio was a good thing.

 

[Clayton Moore]

He was stripped of his license for cooking the books in his now infamous psuedo- study which claimed to link vaccines and autism.

LONDON — A doctor whose research and public statements caused widespread alarm that a common childhood vaccine could cause autism was banned on Monday from practicing medicine in his native Britain for ethical lapses, including conducting invasive medical procedures on children that they did not need.

The General Medical Council applied its most severe sanction against the doctor, Andrew Wakefield, 53, who abandoned his medical practice in Britain in 2004 as questions intensified about his research and set up a center to study childhood developmental disorders in Texas, despite not being licensed as a physician there.

In January, after the longest investigation in its history, the council found several instances of what it said was unprofessional conduct by Dr. Wakefield. It cited his taking blood samples for his study from children at his son’s birthday party; he paid each child £5, about $7.20 today, and joked about it later. It also noted that part of the costs of Dr. Wakefield’s research was paid by lawyers for parents seeking to sue vaccine makers for damages. ​

It's unfortunate that they couldn't nail him for criminally negligent homicide.

Child 2. MMR at 15 months - head banging 2 weeks later.
Hyperactive from 18 months.
Endoscopy - aphthoid ulcer at hepatic flexure
Caecum: lymphoid nodular hyperplasia with erythematous rim and pale swollen
core.
Histology, Ileum mild inflammation, colon moderate inflammation
Acute and chronic inflammation.
Treated CT3211 [a dietary treatment]
INDETERMINATE COLITIS** ? CROHN’S DISEASE

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal.html#ixzz1M1YOVinR

You don't have a clue. That's what multiple vaccines do to babies.

 

[Tolls]

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal.html#ixzz1M1YOVinR

You don't have a clue. That's what multiple vaccines do to babies.

And this was shown to be due to the MMR jab how, exactly?
Where's the methodology?
Where's the statistical analysis?

Or are you, possibly, simply using this poor childs problems as a propoganda tool with no concern whether they were due to vaccines or not?

 

[Clayton Moore]

And this was shown to be due to the MMR jab how, exactly?
Where's the methodology?
Where's the statistical analysis?

Or are you, possibly, simply using this poor childs problems as a propoganda tool with no concern whether they were due to vaccines or not?

Child 1. Immediate reaction to MMR with fever at 1 [corrected, illegible]
.........
Child 2. MMR at 15 months - head banging 2 weeks later.
Hyperactive from 18 months..................

Child 3. ? dysmorphism - chromosomes and normal development
MMR at 5 months [sic]
Measles at 2.5 years* - 1 month later change in behavior
[* correction: he received measles vaccine first at approximately 15 months of age and MMR at 2.5. years]..............

Child 4 (2). Reacted to triple vaccine 4 months - screaming and near cot death (DPT) MMR at 15 months - behaviour changed after 1 week..........


Child 5 (3). MMR at 14 months.
Second day after, fever and rash, bangs head and behaviour abnormal
thereafter...................

Child 6 (7). MMR - 16 months - no obvious reaction
2 years behavioral change - ..............................


Child 78. MMR 14 months
16 months “growling voice”
18 months - behavioural changes - autism diagnosed at 3 years...............

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal.html#ixzz1M1xa4grU



Did you read the article?

Is Measles a dangerous disease in the US? It wasn't in the 50s. Certainly almost everyone who died from measles in the 50s would have been saved today with 50 years of advances in medical treatment and diet knowledge.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.iirusa.com/vbc/welcome.xml

VACCINES are the continuing success story, earning over $27 billion in 2009 alone, despite difficult economic times for the pharmaceutical industry.

By 2012, vaccines are expected to bring in more than $35 billion in revenue.

Business development heads must take a long hard look at their company's pipelines and pursue stronger vaccine portfolios. As the global demand for vaccines and their profitability continue to soar, pharmaceutical and biotech companies are increasingly looking for ways to secure the most lucrative partnerships possible to advance their vaccine platform development.

The Vaccine Business Congress is the only conference solely dedicated to fostering partnering opportunities in the vaccine space. Here, we bring together all of the major players in vaccine development, including big Pharma, small biotech, government, philanthropic organizations, and private investment companies. Participants obtain with the tools to secure funding for their vaccine platforms, so they can stay competitive in a booming market in both developed and emerging markets.

It's not medicine, it's a business.

 

[Travis]

What does diet knowledge have to do with the Measles?

And what do profits have to do with this? Would you think that vaccines were safe if no one ever made money off of them?

 

[aggle-rithm]

http://www.iirusa.com/vbc/welcome.xml

VACCINES are the continuing success story, earning over $27 billion in 2009 alone, despite difficult economic times for the pharmaceutical industry.

Economically speaking vaccines have low elasticity. That means that the normal supply and demand rules don't apply because people need it no matter how cash-strapped they are or how expensive it is.

The same applies to insulin.

By 2012, vaccines are expected to bring in more than $35 billion in revenue.



It's not medicine, it's a business.

Vaccines aren't nearly as lucrative as perscription medications.

I don't go back for a polio vaccine every month. How much money is Big Pharma making off of me with polio vaccines?

 

[aggle-rithm]

Here's a link that seems to confirm Clayton's claim that pharmaceutical companies want to profit from vaccines:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/03/09/us-vaccines-analysis-idUSTRE5281SD20090309

Except that:

U.S. healthcare reform, with President Barack Obama targeting high drug prices, is adding to the pressure and making vaccines -- previously notorious for low margins -- seem ever more attractive as both their sales and profitability improve.

Which means they are JUST STARTING to look to vaccines as a profit vehicle. And that is mostly because of brand-new technologies such as various cancer vaccines.

How many babies have been victimized by cancer vaccines?

 

[Tolls]

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031116_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_British_Medical_Journal.html#ixzz1M1xa4grU



Did you read the article?

Those aren't statistics.
They are a handful of data points.

All the large scale studies show no connection between MMR and autism (which was Wakefields claim).

You, meanwhile, are just a scare-mongering arse.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Those aren't statistics.
They are a handful of data points.

All the large scale studies show no connection between MMR and autism (which was Wakefields claim).

You, meanwhile, are just a scare-mongering arse.

There were no large scale studies.

Did you know vaccine "testing" of vaccines is done only on healthy children?
And that 60% of children are not considered healthy enough to participate. Which is super scary in that almost all children will be required to receive the vaccine.

All studies listed excluded children who weren’t healthy–roughly 60% of the general population of infants and children would not be accepted into a vaccine study.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/back-to-basics/how-are-vaccines-evaluated-for-safety/

 

[TSR]

There were no large scale studies.

.
Wrong.
.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Did you know vaccine "testing" of vaccines is done only on healthy children?
And that 60% of children are not considered healthy enough to participate. Which is super scary in that almost all children will be required to receive the vaccine.

And do you know that symptoms of autism are usually first detected at about the same age that the MMR innoculation is done, making it inevitable that a correlation will sometimes be mistaken for causation?

Dave

 

[Tolls]

Indeed,
Very wrong.
All the studies there are significantly larger than the one mentioned in Clayton Moore's article. They also involved examining whether there was any increase in autism from MMR after the introduction of the jab, so the idea that the children were recruited for a vaccine study is nonsense.

 

[Clayton Moore]

.
Wrong.
.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_study_design

Case-control study
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Case-Control Study vs. Cohort on a Timeline

Case-control is a type of epidemiological, clinical study design. It is typically used for retrospective studies, but can also be applied to prospective studies as well. In a case-control study, people with a disease (often, a specific diagnosis, perhaps lung cancer) are matched with people who do not have the disease (the 'controls').[1] [2] Further data are then collected on those individuals and the groups are compared to find out if other characteristics (perhaps a history of smoking) are also different between the two groups.

That just means everyone got the same regimen of vaccines and some, I think 1 out 110 is the latest number, are stricken with autism.

 

[TSR]

And do you know that symptoms of autism are usually first detected at about the same age that the MMR innoculation is done, making it inevitable that a correlation will sometimes be mistaken for causation?

.
Not to mention that the diagnostic criteria for ASD was expanded, meaning that all else being equal, one would expect more diagnoses even without changing the actual symptoms. Funny that...
.

 

[Clayton Moore]

And do you know that symptoms of autism are usually first detected at about the same age that the MMR innoculation is done, making it inevitable that a correlation will sometimes be mistaken for causation?

Dave

Child 4 (2). Reacted to triple vaccine 4 months - screaming and near cot death (DPT) MMR at 15 months - behaviour changed after 1 week..........


Child 5 (3). MMR at 14 months.
Second day after, fever and rash, bangs head and behaviour abnormal
thereafter...................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Fuel_tank_controversy

According to a 1977 Mother Jones article, Ford allegedly was aware of the design flaw, refused to pay for a redesign, and decided it would be cheaper to pay off possible lawsuits for resulting deaths. The magazine obtained a cost-benefit analysis that it said Ford had used to compare the cost of an $11 repair against the monetary value of a human life—what became known as the Ford Pinto Memo.[13][16][17]

Recall

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) pressured Ford to recall the Pinto, motivated by public outcry and pressure from groups such as Ralph Nader's Center for Auto Safety. Initially, the NHTSA did not feel there was sufficient evidence to demand a recall due to incidents of fire. The 27 deaths attributed to Pinto fires is the same number of deaths attributed to a transmission problem in the Pinto, which resulted in 180 total deaths in all Ford vehicles, and in 1974 the NHTSA ruled that the Pinto had no "recallable" problem.[19]

The precedent of the California Supreme Court at the time not only tolerated manufacturers trading off safety for cost, but apparently encouraged manufacturers to consider such trade-offs (p. 1037).

I'm sure vaccine execs are no different.

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

I don't believe parents who notice their children's behavior, after a multiple
vaccine inoculation, suddenly degrades into autism can possibly be ignored and even worse ridiculed. Who knows better what has recently happened to their baby than its parents?

All 3 of my children, and all of the children in their age cohorts that we know from school and extracurricular activities received "multiple vaccine inoculation" including the dreaded MMR. NONE of my kids or their age cohort buddies have autism.

None.


I believe, and this is a positive belief so you should approve, that the odds of a child being exposed to communicable disease in modern society is 100%. With vaccines I get to prevent the worst of those from coming home.

I also believe in going shopping whenever I feel a cold or flu coming on. Sharing the misery makes me happy and I believe I'm doing society a service by allowing everyone to develop antibodies before the virus mutates again.

Belief is not knowledge. You have a "belief" about vaccines, but doctors and scientists have knowledge. Thanks, I'll trust knowledge over belief every time.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I'm sure vaccine execs are no different.

And I'm sure you're entirely guided by prejudice. So you're not really achieving anything here, are you?

Dave

 

[Clayton Moore]

All 3 of my children, and all of the children in their age cohorts that we know from school and extracurricular activities received "multiple vaccine inoculation" including the dreaded MMR. NONE of my kids or their age cohort buddies have autism.

None.


I believe, and this is a positive belief so you should approve, that the odds of a child being exposed to communicable disease in modern society is 100%. With vaccines I get to prevent the worst of those from coming home.

I also believe in going shopping whenever I feel a cold or flu coming on. Sharing the misery makes me happy and I believe I'm doing society a service by allowing everyone to develop antibodies before the virus mutates again.

Belief is not knowledge. You have a "belief" about vaccines, but doctors and scientists have knowledge. Thanks, I'll trust knowledge over belief every time.

I'm glad for you. If you've gotten the drift of my posts I'm not against vaccines I'm against the obvious overload of vaccines into immature immune systems.

I've rarely read of anyone and I've never known anyone who died or was debilitated for life from any of the "childhood" diseases such as mumps, measles, and chicken pox. 1 of 110 children are diagnosed as autistic.

A simple study of children who don't get vaccines and their autism numbers would settle the issue. It would be historical data so no child would be endangered.