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Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

Hercules56 said:
"Try to introduce yourself with your own pronouns so that everyone you meet knows that you’re a safe space and that you won’t assume a person’s pronouns. It also prompts them to provide pronouns without it being awkward. (Ex. “Hello, my name is Alex and I use they/them/theirs pronouns.”)"

No....no....no.

I will NOT be introducing myself by saying "hi, my name is George. My preferred pronoun is "he".

******* ridiculous.
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Why? I do it.
 
Thermal said:
Goofball Pronouns: being laughed off the stage for centuries.

I'm sure the crew at UC Boulder will be the ones to turn the tide. Zey are the voice of a New Generation.
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This is why I have repeatedly said that while there are a few people who insist on neopronouns, for the most part they have never caught on, and They/Them is acceptable in almost all circumstances.
 
arthwollipot said:
"Ze" as a gender neutral neopronoun dates back to at least 1864, according to Wikipedia.
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Not that it matters, but Wiki cited as it's source for that...a Rolling Stone article, quoting a bald and unsourced claim that there was evidence of the words usage going back that far. Not the most robust of sourcing. Again, not that it matters, but the Rolling Stone piece goes on to say it didn't reappear again till the 1980's or 90's.
 
Thermal said:
Not that it matters, but Wiki cited as it's source for that...a Rolling Stone article, quoting a bald and unsourced claim that there was evidence of the words usage going back that far. Not the most robust of sourcing. Again, not that it matters, but the Rolling Stone piece goes on to say it didn't reappear again till the 1980's or 90's.
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Sure, I grant that. But it also shows that it's not something that suddenly appeared recently out of nothing, which is what you suggested when you said that it "doesn't even ******* exist".
 
Upchurch said:
I remember. You're just contradicting yourself and then blaming others for it, apparently. I'm just asking for clarification.
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I am not. You are reading words you want to read, rather than what is actually posted, so you are confusing yourself. See below.


Hercules56 has made many claims but supports very few of them. He also has a tendency to cherry pick his own sources, ignoring where they prove him wrong, as well as ignoring all the counter examples that also prove him wrong. If you perceive he is being ignored, perhaps you're just missing that he lost any benefit of the doubt as a good faith participant in the discussion.
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I have also had arguments with Herc to the point of getting royally pissed off. But I have no idea where you are going with this. Why do you think I perceive he is being ignored?

Okay, you do not find the effort to be effectual, but you do find it effectual enough be a problem or concern, right?
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No.

Also, what demographic do you think that is and do you have a source to support that preferred pronouns are not popular with that demographic?
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Never once have I suggested that preferred pronouns aren't popular with any demographic. You are restructuring arguments to your rhetorical benefit. Please stop.
 
arthwollipot said:
Sure, I grant that. But it also shows that it's not something that suddenly appeared recently out of nothing, which is what you suggested when you said that it "doesn't even ******* exist".
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No, I never suggested it suddenly appeared. It's just descriptively meaningless. Not a fan of words that have no useful meaning. Starting with "gender".
 
Thermal said:
No, I never suggested it suddenly appeared. It's just descriptively meaningless. Not a fan of words that have no useful meaning. Starting with "gender".
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So then it is as I said. They/Them is most appropriate, and we shouldn't be too concerned about neopronouns.
 
Thermal said:
No, I never suggested it suddenly appeared. It's just descriptively meaningless. Not a fan of words that have no useful meaning. Starting with "gender".
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Hold on, you're throwing in a new proposition here, aren't you? I haven't heard you argue this before, that "gender" has no useful meaning. Maybe elaborate?
 
gnome said:
Hold on, you're throwing in a new proposition here, aren't you? I haven't heard you argue this before, that "gender" has no useful meaning. Maybe elaborate?
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I thought I mentioned it? Maybe another thread.

I don't see the point for gender ID as anything but a vague feeling about how you think you should act or be, relative to your sex. Not much more useful than a Capricorn's alleged personality traits. Almost entirely objectively meaningless. It annoys me when it gets slipped in as the equivalent of sex when convenient, then immediately backpedals to "well it's complicated" when challenged or clarification requested.
 
Thermal said:
I thought I mentioned it? Maybe another thread.



I don't see the point for gender ID as anything but a vague feeling about how you think you should act or be, relative to your sex. Not much more useful than a Capricorn's alleged personality traits. Almost entirely objectively meaningless. It annoys me when it gets slipped in as the equivalent of sex when convenient, then immediately backpedals to "well it's complicated" when challenged or clarification requested.
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I find it equally annoying when people live and interact with the world with some degree of gender assumptions and expectations, then resist all attempts to discuss their ideas and values of gender amongst other sets of values, even denying such social constructs exist at all.

And certainly some can arise from it indeed being a complex topic of a "soft" science where words that typically have objective, rigid meanings are used to describe processes that we have an incomplete understanding of.

But we also have to bear in mind "I need the most basic truths explained to me repeatedly, but will never budge regardless" is seen frequently enough not to discount out of hand.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I find it equally annoying when people live and interact with the world with some degree of gender assumptions and expectations, then resist all attempts to discuss their ideas and values of gender amongst other sets of values, even denying such social constructs exist at all.

And certainly some can arise from it indeed being a complex topic of a "soft" science where words that typically have objective, rigid meanings are used to describe processes that we have an incomplete understanding of.

But we also have to bear in mind "I need the most basic truths explained to me repeatedly, but will never budge regardless" is seen frequently enough not to discount out of hand.
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Yes, some will do that and it is also annoying. When asking about this, it often boils down to "everyone has their own subjective idea of what their gender is", which doesn't really seem helpful to me. Staggering back to the OP, introducing yourself with your pronouns makes no sense at all. "You" don't have third person pronouns. Others do. How often do you introduce yourself saying "Hi I'm Bob, and this is how you will talk about me to other people"? It's ******* weird.
 
Thermal said:
Yes, some will do that and it is also annoying. When asking about this, it often boils down to "everyone has their own subjective idea of what their gender is", which doesn't really seem helpful to me. Staggering back to the OP, introducing yourself with your pronouns makes no sense at all. "You" don't have third person pronouns. Others do. How often do you introduce yourself saying "Hi I'm Bob, and this is how you will talk about me to other people"? It's ******* weird.
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Along with everyone having their own subjective idea of what their gender is, many people have their own subjective idea of what other people's gender is.

Equally weird is "Hi Bob, even though we just met and I don't know jack **** about you, I'm going to talk about you to other people in a way that entirely invalidates some aspect of your identity."
 
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