Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

[d4m10n]

It is generally considered an embarrassing faux-pas when accidental, and an act of hostility when intentional.

Why is that, though? I don't care if you folks think I'm a man or a woman unless I'm making an argument from personal experiences which are unique to growing up either one way or the other. There isn't anything bad about being a woman, after all, so if you all decide to use she/her pronouns for me I'm not going to put up a fuss about it. They/them are fine too.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Why is that, though?

Why is finding a reason to be an ass for no reason so important to you?

 

[d4m10n]

"Good manners cost you nothing" is a lesson that most preschoolers can at least understand.

The argument I've seen is that by shifting pronouns from sex to gender you are actively affirming a few ideas which some folks might not care to affirm, most notably the idea that gender is generally more important than sex in most or all the situations wherein we used to sort people by sex.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why is that, though? I don't care if you folks think I'm a man or a woman unless I'm making an argument from personal experiences which are unique to growing up either one way or the other. There isn't anything bad about being a woman, after all, so if you all decide to use she/her pronouns for me I'm not going to put up a fuss about it. They/them are fine too.

Either you're either being intentionally obtuse, or you really don't understand basic social interactions. Either way I can't help you.

 

[d4m10n]

Why is finding a reason to be an ass for no reason so important to you?

Because people often use manners as an excuse to manipulate the behavior of other people by shutting down discussions on topics where they'd rather not have to defend their position, as in the ancient taboo against blasphemy or the much newer taboo against using pronouns to refer to sex rather than gender.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Because people often use manners as an excuse to manipulate the behavior of other people by shutting down discussions on topics where they'd rather not have to defend their position, as in the ancient taboo against blasphemy or the much newer taboo against using pronouns to refer to sex rather than gender.

The tyranny of not being able to subject your black coworkers to a long diatribe about "The Bell Curve". Oh the humanity.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Why the internet has created so many of this persona where a 400 page debate about whether or not the wear a snorkel and swim trunks to a funeral is somehow less mental work then just not wearing the snorkel and swim trunks to the funeral I'll never know.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Because people often use manners as an excuse to manipulate the behavior of other people by shutting down discussions on topics where they'd rather not have to defend their position, as in the ancient taboo against blasphemy or the much newer taboo against using pronouns to refer to sex rather than gender.

Nobody is asking you to DO anything. Come down off the cross.

Edited by sarge: 

edited for civility

 

[d4m10n]

Either you're either being intentionally obtuse, or you really don't understand basic social interactions. Either way I can't help you.

If I don't think there is anything wrong with being a woman, why should I be upset if you folks see me as a woman? It's not like this never happens on the internet, where avatars can be fairly ambiguous.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Also please note that he didn't actually say "Finding a reason to be an ass" WASN'T his goal.

 

[d4m10n]

Nobody is asking you to DO anything.

Nobody is asking me to use their preferred pronouns?

Evidently you don't know much about my life.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Nobody is asking me to use their preferred pronouns?

Oh for ****'s sake.

"Do anything that requires literally any effort, time, or has literally any cost associated with it at all."

Keep pretending basic human interaction was only explained to you once in a math equation. The whole faux-autistic Vulcan Robot routine is so ******* over.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Nobody is asking you to DO anything. Come down off the cross.

Being an ass and not being an ass take the exact same amount of effort.

Like the Lieutenant Dan character from Forrest Gump, it seems some posters here can trace back several generations of their line who fought and died in the Gender Wars, and not doing so themselves would be dishonoring their memory.

My great, great grand pappy was on the Mayflower and is the first recorded person to misgender a member of the Wampanoag Nation, it's a family tradition you see.

 

[Upchurch]

Sometime in their lifetimes, English speakers shifted from using pronouns as shorthand for either females or males to using pronouns based on subjective personal preference.

So the Webster source you provided, which only refers to gender and not sex, is not the definition you are referring to, despite having actually citing it?

Gen Z starts, depending on who you ask, being born around 1997. That's about 25 years ago and roughly coincides with the start of third-wave feminism, which began including LGBT Rights as part of the feminist cause. Language changes and evolves for many reasons and there is a lot going on there.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'm seeing a lot of "it's my right to wear whatever I want! Including wearing a white dress with train and veil to someone else's wedding" energy here. "It's my riiiiight and you're being illogical!" they shriek after being tossed out by a gaggle of bridesmaids acting as bouncers. Such oppression, it's a miracle there's not a charity devoted to these persecuted martyrs.

 

[varwoche]

If I don't think there is anything wrong with being a woman, why should I be upset if you folks see me as a woman? It's not like this never happens on the internet, where avatars can be fairly ambiguous.

Interactions on the internet are different than in the "real world". Obviously.

I get the distinct sense that you're a tad bit clueless about other peoples' sensibilities.

 

[Upchurch]

Because people often use manners as an excuse to manipulate the behavior of other people by shutting down discussions on topics where they'd rather not have to defend their position, as in the ancient taboo against blasphemy or the much newer taboo against using pronouns to refer to sex rather than gender.

I don't know if this is the thread to have conversations that people would rather not have and the fuzziness of biological sex, a taboo subject for some.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm seeing a lot of "it's my right to wear whatever I want! Including wearing a white dress with train and veil to someone else's wedding" energy here. "It's my riiiiight and you're being illogical!" they shriek after being tossed out by a gaggle of bridesmaids acting as bouncers. Such oppression, it's a miracle there's not a charity devoted to these persecuted martyrs.

Big "Reddit's Am I the *******?" energy in this thread to be sure.

 

[lionking]

I don't know if this is the thread to have conversations that people would rather not have and the fuzziness of biological sex, a taboo subject for some.

Can you please explain what is fuzzy about biological sex? As others have said, there is just about nothing in nature as binary as sex.

 

[LondonJohn]

The argument I've seen is that by shifting pronouns from sex to gender you are actively affirming a few ideas which some folks might not care to affirm, most notably the idea that gender is generally more important than sex in most or all the situations wherein we used to sort people by sex.

I see. So if, for example, you met a Rabbi in a social context, and you were an atheist...

....you'd refuse to refer to the person as "Rabbi", and instead insisted on referring to the person as "Mr"/"Mrs"/"Miss"/"Ms", on account of your pseudo-intellectual commitment "not to affirm" the idea of theistic religion?

Do you even realise how bankrupt your position is? My word.