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Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

Ziggurat said:
Pronouns serve as labels for communication, so that a speaker can convey the identity of third party they are talking about to a second party in a way that the second party can understand the reference, without having to use the third party's name.
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This is way over-complicated, to the point of being wrong.

Simply put, pronouns are stand-ins for nouns or noun-phrases.

Pronouns are gendered because sex is one of the most fundamental characteristics of a person, it is correctly identifiable immediately in the vast majority of cases, and referring to someone by their sex is an incredibly concise way to help identify the third party being referred to.
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And this is a just-so story. Gendered pronouns are a consequence of English having once had grammatical gender. In languages that have never had grammatical gender, they didn't get the memo about how incredibly useful this is.

The reality is that there's no more design behind this stuff than there is behind evolution. They didn't have style guides six thousand years ago.
 
Hercules56 said:
Be shameful if someone uses this new rule to justify attacking someone with violence, because they were misgendered. Hopefully this policy will be removed quick.
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From the website:

"This information was created by students, for students. The university supports an inclusive environment."

Not a policy or a rule or anything of that kind.. Someone making the website using a bit off definition of the word violence - nothing to see here apart from willful misunderstanding in order to get a big "Help we're being oppressed"-moment.

They do use the correct "Offensive"-term later tho and using correct pronouns against persons wishes is offensive.
 
I have a pretty good idea of what the students who drafted this are reading as undergrads, and it won't be anything 'rigorous', but rather a subject that ends in "studies". IOW a bunch of twats with an IQ on the left side of the bell-curve.
 
Blank said:
From the website:

"This information was created by students, for students. The university supports an inclusive environment."

Not a policy or a rule or anything of that kind.. Someone making the website using a bit off definition of the word violence - nothing to see here apart from willful misunderstanding in order to get a big "Help we're being oppressed"-moment.

They do use the correct "Offensive"-term later tho and using correct pronouns against persons wishes is offensive.
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I suspect more aggrieved right wingers have read this page than actual students at the university. These things basically don't exist in the public eye except when some right wing tabloid is having a slow news days and plucks it from obscurity.

This is facebook rage bait of not a particularly high quality.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
I suspect more aggrieved right wingers have read this page than actual students at the university.
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Quite possibly true. But your apparent conclusion, that this means it doesn't matter, is wrong. It does matter, not because of who will read it, but because of what it indicates about university environments. This isn't an outlier. This isn't some radical student saying nonsense that nobody else believes. This is a student parroting the standard University party line. The author didn't come up with this all on their own, this is what they were taught. This is what the universities are teaching all their students.
 
Ziggurat said:
Quite possibly true. But your apparent conclusion, that this means it doesn't matter, is wrong. It does matter, not because of who will read it, but because of what it indicates about university environments. This isn't an outlier. This isn't some radical student saying nonsense that nobody else believes. This is a student parroting the standard University party line. The author didn't come up with this all on their own, this is what they were taught. This is what the universities are teaching all their students.
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Universities don't need to teach this. Anyone college age understands that misgendering people intentionally is rude. I think you're really overestimating how much "don't be a jerk to trans people" is something that has be to be taught to young people.

If anything, college is one of the few environments where you can get away with this. Going full edgelord never really works out that great in a professional workplace that doesn't want to get their asses sued off for hostile work environment. Young reactionaries should enjoy themselves as much as they can at college before they go into the real world where being an outspoken jerk is generally not well tolerated.
 
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d4m10n said:
Has UC Boulder really gone any further than the business? They expect students to use appropriate pronouns, based on gender identity.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
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I've not seen any businesses or even municipalities take on the idea that "intentional misgendering of persons is a form of violence".

Seems UC Boulder has taken a step further than most.

I expect more colleges to follow.
 
Thermal said:
I dunno. They seemed to work great for centuries, giving brevity and often clarity to the language. Wouldn't it be easier to abandon the concept of gender, as it serves no purpose anyway other than to cause confusion and offense?
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You want to abandon the actual concept of male & female human beings?

Make believe they do not exist? What about for dogs, cats, horses, and other animals?

Does that mean we also get rid of womens' sports, womens' bathrooms, womens' gyms, and affirmative action policies for women?
 
Ziggurat said:
Quite possibly true. But your apparent conclusion, that this means it doesn't matter, is wrong. It does matter, not because of who will read it, but because of what it indicates about university environments. This isn't an outlier. This isn't some radical student saying nonsense that nobody else believes. This is a student parroting the standard University party line. The author didn't come up with this all on their own, this is what they were taught. This is what the universities are teaching all their students.
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This is the kind of thing you should save for your manifesto.
 
Hercules56 said:
You want to abandon the actual concept of male & female human beings?

Make believe they do not exist? What about for dogs, cats, horses, and other animals?

Does that mean we also get rid of womens' sports, womens' bathrooms, womens' gyms, and affirmative action policies for women?
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Interestingly, I meant what I ******* said. Sex is real. Gender is imaginary. Do away with the imaginary, as it serves no purpose or benefit.
 
Thermal said:
Interestingly, I meant what I ******* said. Sex is real. Gender is imaginary. Do away with the imaginary, as it serves no purpose or benefit.
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So you want to get rid of all separation of male & female humans? Does that include in sports, bathrooms, gyms, employment benefits?
 
TurkeysGhost said:
Universities don't need to teach this. Anyone college age understands that misgendering people intentionally is rude.
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Again, the claim at issue isn't that it's rude. The claim at issue is that it's oppression and violence. And Universities are teaching that. You're trying to pull a motte and bailey on behalf of someone else.
 
Hercules56 said:
So you want to get rid of all separation of male & female humans?
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That's sex, not gender. He's explicitly calling for a return to recognizing sex as relevant instead of gender. That makes sex segregation easier to maintain.
 
The logical conclusion of the OP is that schools will use this new classification of "violence" to justify expelling students and teachers, and perhaps even filing criminal charges. Who knows. I hope this will not be used to defend acts of violence but again who knows.
 
Ziggurat said:
When you can't address an argument on its merits, try to insult the person making the argument instead.
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What makes you think I can't address the very obvious error of concluding from "a subset of students believe this" that "universities are teaching this to all students"?

I was just commenting on the direct-from-the-bunker vibe.
 
Ziggurat said:
Again, the claim at issue isn't that it's rude. The claim at issue is that it's oppression and violence. And Universities are teaching that. You're trying to pull a motte and bailey on behalf of someone else.
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Then I go back to my other point, that students are probably not spending any time at all thinking about these non-binding declarations from student government. 90% of what these orgs do on campus is basically busy work for the students participating in what is charitably a resume building exercise. Really seems like you're giving these groups way more credit than they are due, they are simply not that influential.

A toothless declaration parked on some webpage of a university isn't "teaching" much of anyone at all. At best it goes in one ear and out the other like all the other boilerplate stuff in a student handbook or code of conduct.

I assure you, young people coming into college aren't being exposed to this kind of stuff for the first time. If anything you're reversing cause and effect, where the general youth zeitgeist is informing these kinds of statements by student government statements, not the other way around.
 
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