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US Officials Declare Eastern Cougar Extinct

This is for the recently-declared-extinct Eastern Cougar, but I think some of it can be applied to Bigfoot belief. From Page 40 of the USFWS review. I think it's interesting that a government report cites (false) cultural beliefs and uses Michael Shermer quotes (Why People Believe Weird Things) adapted to the topic (my previous post)...


Weidensaul (2002) discussed the phenomenon of why so many people claim to see eastern pumas and why there has been so much public interest in their possible return to eastern North America: "The idea [of pumas being present] is incredibly seductive – the notion that these gentle mountains, long settled and so badly misused by people for centuries, could have reclaimed such a potent symbol of wilderness as the mountain lion. Sometimes, I think, we need to believe such things even when the evidence (or its absence) suggests we are deluding ourselves. Deep down in our overcivilized hearts, we need the world to be bigger, and more mysterious, and more exciting than it appears to be in the cold light of day – especially in this age, when the planet shrinks daily and no place seems truly remote or unknown. We're unwilling to accept that there isn't more to the world than what we can see." Butz espoused that the multitude of puma sightings represented "wishful thinking, or that peculiar human desire to bear witness to something nobody else has seen before."

Both Weidensaul (2002) and Butz (2005) hypothesized that humans by nature are a hopeful, optimistic species and that the belief that pumas still haunt the East "adds luster to an ever-dimmer planet." At the heart of the eastern puma controversy and debate is hope – hope that past environmental transgressions did not eliminate the puma, and if it is gone, hope that against odds it is making a comeback to its former habitats in eastern North America. "The more dramatic, colorful, or formidable an animals is – the longer shadow it casts upon its environment and the bigger psychic hole left by its absence – the less likely we are to accept its loss, and the more apt we are to keep hunting and hoping, even when the evidence is pretty grim" (Weidensaul 2002). Bass (1995) said (of grizzlies in Colorado, but it applies equally well to pumas in the East), "there is a place in our hearts for them, and so it is possible to believe they still exist, if only because that space of longing exists." "The eastern cougar is less a concrete, biological organism than it is a talisman, a totem of wilderness to which people can pin a lot of their dreams… of all the lost species that may haunt the globe, few have the evocative power of these ghost cats. More than for almost any other extinct animal, people want to believe – maybe even need to believe – that big cats still linger on the wild margins of their urbanized world" (Weidensaul 2002).
 
This is for the recently-declared-extinct Eastern Cougar, but I think some of it can be applied to Bigfoot belief. From Page 40 of the USFWS review. I think it's interesting that a government report cites (false) cultural beliefs and uses Michael Shermer quotes (Why People Believe Weird Things) adapted to the topic (my previous post)...

tl;dr

coyotes and pumas and bears; oh my
 
tl;dr

coyotes and pumas and bears; oh my

Sarcasm duly noted, so you contend also that there are no Coyotes or Bears in the Northeast? The last time I saw the range of the North American Black Bear, it wasn't quite accurate. It gets a little further south, so do Moose.

To Parcher, nevermind I saw Cougar in upstate NY, (I know, burden of proof blah blah blah), you doubt the presence of Moose in the SOuthern NE? I'll just throw that out there for my own curiosity.

Hell, Coyotes and Black Bears, how far south ya figure?
 
To Parcher, nevermind I saw Cougar in upstate NY, (I know, burden of proof blah blah blah), you doubt the presence of Moose in the SOuthern NE? I'll just throw that out there for my own curiosity.


Was your cougar in the same area that you saw your Bigfoot?

You want to know if I think moose are living in Connecticut, or what?
 
Was your cougar in the same area that you saw your Bigfoot?

You want to know if I think moose are living in Connecticut, or what?

No it was further north but bot were in the Adirondacks. The question about Moose et al, just asking because the other poster brought uo bears and coyotes. I thought I'd throw them in there to for ha has.
 
The moose is there. The Eastern Cougar is extinct.


Connecticut Moose Facts

The first sighting of a moose cow with calves in Connecticut was reported in 2000 in Hartland. Between 2000 and 2007, at least 40 calves were born in the state (this number only includes reported sightings by the public). In addition, other moose likely were born in Connecticut or dispersed into the state from Massachusetts.

Since 2000, cows with calves have been reported in 10 different towns (Hartland, New Hartford, Granby, Colebrook, Goshen, Barkhamsted, Union, Winchester, Eastford, and Enfield).

Over the past 17 years, moose sightings increased from an average of 4 per year in the mid-1990s to 69 in 2007.

Based on sightings by the public and deer hunters from 2000 to 2004, Connecticut’s moose population in 2004 was estimated at 63. Without any population management, it will increase 15% in 1 year and 91% in 5 years.

Young moose that disperse into new territories during spring have been documented to travel 5-10 miles per day, sometimes traveling as far as 100 miles over a 5-week period, passing through a dozen towns.
 
Why would anyone doubt the existence of moose in Southern New england? There are documented sightings of moose there.
 
To Parcher, nevermind I saw Cougar in upstate NY, (I know, burden of proof blah blah blah), you doubt the presence of Moose in the SOuthern NE? I'll just throw that out there for my own curiosity.

???
The claim is not that there are no cougars in the east (there are), the claim is that the specific subspecies Puma concolor couguar is extinct.

“We recognize that many people have seen cougars in the wild within the historical range of the eastern cougar,” said the Service’s Northeast Region Chief of Endangered Species Martin Miller. “However, we believe those cougars are not the eastern cougar subspecies. We found no information to support the existence of the eastern cougar.”
source
 
???
The claim is not that there are no cougars in the east (there are), the claim is that the specific subspecies Puma concolor couguar is extinct.

source

And I am not defending the EASTERN cougar, as you say, I merely say there are cougars in the east, because there are.
 
???
The claim is not that there are no cougars in the east (there are), the claim is that the specific subspecies Puma concolor couguar is extinct.

source

Yes Roger, we have been saying that throughout the thread. There is a romanticism displayed in defending the existence of the P. concolor couguar, by some, that seems to be evident when discussing this subject however.
 
We're always told of the risks of animals facing extinction, so I'm wondering, when should I expect the ecosystem of the USA to collapse?

In Captain Kirk voice: It... already... has... ARRRGGHH!!

http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=3284
“The potential collapse of our restored deciduous forests is the biggest underreported ecological crisis developing in the eastern third of the country,” said Christopher Spatz, president of the Cougar Rewilding Foundation. “Step into your nearest woodlot, state or national forest. Notice the deer browse-line five-feet high, the missing seedlings and saplings, the carpets of ferns and invasive weeds that suppress tree-growth. Our forests are standing graveyards.”
 
And I am not defending the EASTERN cougar, as you say, I merely say there are cougars in the east, because there are.
Who is disputing that in this thread (I read your comment as implying somebody thought there were not cougars in the east)? I admit to being a bit at sea here - people seem to be dragging in old conflicts from bigfoot threads, and I neither know the players or their positions (I don't read, and am not interested in those threads, or people's perceived baggage).
 
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This new designation (Eastern Cougar extinct) is on a Federal level. Individual states can designate, legislate or protect the hypothetical Eastern Cougar as they see fit.

For example, the state of New York still protects the Eastern Cougar with their own Endangered Species Act. But that is not to say that state officials would say that there are any there.

USFWS said:
The (New York) State Department of Environmental Protection considers the species to be extirpated, but it is protected by the State ESA.

There is no modern confirmatory evidence that any cougars are living in New York.

USFWS 5-year review said:
New York, 1975 Puma shot by State Police in Catskills; escaped from zoo.

New York, ca. 1975 Puma escaped from Animal Land in Lake George; shot by sheriff.

New York, ca. 1975 Puma escaped in Northway; shot by police?

New York, 31 December 1993 Kitten shot by a hunter near Sacandaga Reservoir in Saratoga County; 7.5 pounds emaciated; South American genetic origin.
 
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We are seeing a general rejection of the USFWS conclusion and review by many Bigfoot believers. I think they are doing this on principle.

The conclusion that Eastern Cougars are extinct is a lot like proving a negative, or reaching a decision based on a negative. The review basically says that if Eastern Cougars still existed - we would have definitive evidence to show for it. That reasoning can be applied to Bigfoot as well.

Eastern Cougars were essentially exterminated by people in various ways. In the process of this we did not produce any Bigfoot evidence that would confirm their existence. Countless hunters shot cougars over centuries and yet never bagged a Bigfoot.

Many of the methods employed to try to establish the presence of Eastern Cougars would have also established the presence of Bigfoot. No cougars found and no Bigfoots found.

It's no surprise that many Bigfooters refer to this review as wrong and worthless.
 
How does one tell the difference between a western and eastern cougar?
 
The Eastern will appear lifeless and stiff. Like this...
 

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How does one tell the difference between a western and eastern cougar?

Exactly. The cougar controversy that pits the eyewitness accounts of private citizens against official declarations of state and federal wildlife officials is barely tangential to the announcement that the eastern subspecies is extinct.

When Billy Bob calls his local ranger to report that he just saw a cougar cross the road and the ranger answers with "the eastern cougar is extinct," that's a non-sequitur. The ranger's response does not address Billy Bob's report: What Billy Bob hears is "You didn't see a cougar." Enmity ensues.

This controversy is about communications more than it's about cougars.
 

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