Merged US may close Cuba Embassy over 'health attacks'

[dann]

Subcommittee Hearing tomorrow

In posts 2,219 and 2,220, I mentioned the SUBCOMMITTEE HEARING TO EXAMINE HOMELAND SECURITY THREATS POSED BY HAVANA SYNDROME, which was to have taken place on April 11 but was postponed. It is set for tomorrow, May 8. The witnesses will be people with the same bias, i.e. that the 'syndrome' was/is caused by (now allegedly silent) Russian attacks:

WASHINGTON, D.C. — On Wednesday, May 8, the House Homeland Security Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, Law Enforcement, and Intelligence, led by Chairman August Pfluger (R-TX), will hold a hearing to receive testimony from experts and former government officials regarding anomalous health incidents (AHIs), also known as ‘Havana Syndrome,’ the symptoms of which have been reportedly experienced by an increasing number of Americans that have been targeted (!) abroad and in the homeland.

“The possible (!) targeting of Americans resulting in anomalous health incidents, especially on U.S. soil, is a chilling reminder of the potential lengths adversarial regimes could (!) go to undermine and disrupt our diplomatic, military, or intelligence activities,” Chairman Pfluger said. “If (!) caused purposefully by foreign actors, these attacks are a clear and blatant violation of our national sovereignty. This Subcommittee has a responsibility to examine these incidents and the potential (!) technology and culprits behind them. I look forward to hearing the testimony from our witnesses and gaining a clearer understanding of this possible (!) threat to our homeland security.”

WITNESSES:
Christo Grozev
Lead Investigative Journalist, The Insider, Der Spiegel, Bellingcat
Greg Edgreen
Lieutenant Colonel (Ret.), United States Army, CEO and Founder, Advanced Echelon LLC
Mark Zaid
Founding Partner, Mark S. Zaid, PC
Witness testimony will be added here. The hearing will be livestreamed on YouTube. The hearing will be open to the public and press.

So not a single critic of the attack idea - be it from science, the intelligence community or the media. And despite the many reservations, "possible", "could", "if", "potential", it nevertheless states as a fact that "Americans ... have been targeted abroad and in the homeland."

I also notice that the alleged weapons used for the alleged targeting are now supposed to have been SILENT:
Silent Weapons: Examining Foreign Anomalous Health Incidents Targeting Americans in the Homeland and Abroad. (Homeland.House.Gov, April 11, 2024)
I guess this means that the only piece of hard evidence in the whole 'Havana syndrome' story, i.e. the cricket recordings, will either not be mentioned or, if mentioned at all, dismissed out of hand.

ETA:
It's no wonder Mark Zaid is looking forward to it!

 

[dann]

Mark Zaid's 'Putin of the Gaps' theory - continued from posts 2,257 and 2,260

Wikipedia describes the theological concept of God of the gaps like this:

some individuals, often with religious inclinations, point to areas where science falls short in explaining natural phenomena as opportunities to insert the presence of a divine creator."

It is the reason why missing links in evolutionary biology were so popular among Christian fundamentalists: That's where they could insert their belief in a Creator, i.e. replace evolution with Creationism/intelligent design.

Mark Zaid about the ODNI report. (He calls it the DNI report. I have called it the ODNI report in this thread and will continue to do so.)

I'm not a conspiracy nut, so you gotta believe my conspiracy theory

37:44: So in this particular situation, there are a number of reasons why I believe the government is covering up. And I will say, I have worked conspiracy theories for decades. I am not a conspiracist. I hate conspiracy theories. I generally serve to debunk conspiracy theories. So when I say that the government is covering something up, I do not say that lightly at all. And I will say emphatically on this particular issue: The government is lying, the DNI, the CIA is lying.

This is Mark Zaid emulating woowoos when they begin their stories about spiritual encounters: 'I'm very skeptical by nature, but ...'.
In Zaid's version, 'I hate conspiracy theories, so when I tell you that the government is lying, the whole intelligence community is lying, and the whole government is covering it up, you just gotta to believe me'.

I know something you don't, but I can't tell you what it is

Now, I say that not because I'm just interpreting the same information that everybody else is. I'm saying that because I've reviewed classified information, I've sat in on many classified briefings. I talked to my CIA, DIA, NSA, Intelligence Community Law Enforcement clients about this. Will I reveal the classified information? Absolutely not! I have a security clearance. I will protect that information. But I can tell you, without revealing anything illegally, that the information I have seen on the inside contradicts 180° what the government is saying publicly. And don't believe me. I'll point you guys to the evidence. Let the government declassify it and explain what that information might be. That DNI report, and the CIA obviously says the same.

I like this trick: Don't just believe me! Believe the stuff that's classified, the stuff you can't see!

Low-level confidence in a conclusion = thinking the opposite is true

There's a couple of things to it that were missed in, quite frankly, because they have a way of wording certain things.
So they talk about how it's highly unlikely. And they talk about the level of confidence, uh, that the agencies have, right? The Intelligence Community is made up 17 agencies. And, in fact, some of those agencies have low-level confidence in the conclusion that a highly (I) unlikely foreign adversary. That means, basically, they don't believe the statement that it's highly (I) unlikely a foreign adversary was involved. They don't explain that in their report.

No, it doesn't mean what Mark Zaid claims it means. This is what the ODNI report actually says:

The IC pursued three separate lines of inquiry: the first encompassed work determining whether available data points to the involvement of a foreign adversary in the incidents; the second focused on the feasibility and existence of deliberate mechanisms that an adversary might use against US personnel to cause AHIs; and the third evaluated whether medical analysis can help determine if an outside actor is involved in the broad range of phenomena and symptoms associated with AHIs. Based on the results of these three lines of inquiry, most IC agencies have concluded that it is “very unlikely” a foreign adversary is responsible for the reported AHIs. IC agencies have varying confidence levels, with two agencies at moderate-to-high confidence while three are at moderate confidence. Two agencies judge it is “unlikely” an adversary was responsible for AHIs and they do so with low confidence based on collection gaps and their review of the same evidence.

Notice the contentious part, which I have highlighted: The two agencies that have "low confidence" nevertheless "judge it is “unlikely” an adversary was responsible for AHIs." All seven agencies agree on this point, some with more, some with less confidence.
It couldn't be more obvious who the equivocator is when Mark Zaid says that "they don't believe the statement that it's highly (!) unlikely a foreign adversary was involved."
However, they judge that " it is “unlikely” an adversary was responsible for AHIs", but they don't do so with as much confidence as the others.
They believe it's unlikely but not that it's very unlikely. The report explains it. The one agency that judges that it is only "unlikely a foreign adversary played a role" and does so with only "low confidence in this judgment" does so because it thinks that "the evidence is less compelling because the IC has failed to detect some adversaries’ activities."
Has failed to detect does not imply that it was there to be detected in the first place, but this is how the conspiracy nuts interpret it.

This is where 'Havana Syndrome in the Gaps' or maybe 'Putin in the Gaps' appears.

They also said that, while there were the majority of the cases they felt could be explained by other reasons. For one thing, that doesn't mean that they're not AHI. They just mean there could be something else.
So for example, I know of people where, like I: I played football in high school and college. I probably have a conc, had a concussion right back at that time. That's a pre-existing brain injury. So they would point to that, 'Oh, you had a concussion when you were, you know, 20 years old 30 years ago, so that maybe explains what this is'. But, importantly, what the media missed when those reports came out is the government even admitted that about two dozen cases, they could not identify any alternative environmental factor or pre-existing medical condition to explain the person's circumstance.
That should have been the screaming headline of those reports. 'Two dozen Americans, American officials, seemingly were attacked by something and we don't know what it is!'
But that was unfortunately ignored.

It is not as if a foreign (or domestic) adversary was found in the two dozen cases. It's that an "alternative environmental factor or pre-existing medical condition" allegedly wasn't found, which makes Zaid conclude that the lack of mundane explanations calls for his exotic speculations. Unicorns because no horses were spotted. And even in the cases where horses were spotted, Zaid still won't give up on the unicorns: "that doesn't mean that they're not AHI."

 

[dann]

The Subcommittee Hearing (see post 2,261) on YouTube begins in 12 minutes.
Pre-testimony from the three witnesses
I haven't read it. I got it just a few minutes ago.

 

[dann]

'Putin in the Gaps', continued

In the Subcommittee Hearing yesterday, Mark Zaid continued to refer to the "two dozen cases" after blaming the ODNI report for not being more specific about the "environmental factors, pre-existing medical conditions," i.e. the much more likely explanations for the AHI cases than exotic weaponry. It would probably have taken much more than "another sentence", though, and it might have jeopardized the anonymity of some of the individual cases.

Mark Zaid: The last ODNI assessment that came out in 2023 had indicated in - and to the public it seemed very damning - it's highly unlikely that a foreign adversary was involved. But if you actually look at the levels within each of the agencies just to the level of credibility that they have assessed to that, it is actually quite low for most of them. And there is a lot of pushback even internally among some of the intelligence agencies as to qualification of that information. I'll say just very quickly, finally they talk about in particular one of the CIA's public documents that many of these cases can be explained through environmental factors, pre-existing medical conditions, but they don't explain any of that, which could easily be said in another sentence: 'The medical factors include the following whatever, whatever; we looked at prior health conditions and 85% had football injuries when they played in high school or college'. None of that information is in there, which leads one to believe that there's something more. The other thing I'll say just really quickly on that: The news media missed the story on that CIA assessment. They said they looked at more than a 1,000 cases, and they concluded that the vast majority could be explained otherwise. But there are at least two dozen cases that even the CIA acknowledges they can't explain away by any other alternative factors. That to me is the story that should have been in the New York Times and The Washington Post: That there are two dozen cases the CIA can't even explain away.

Zaid also seems to forget what was said at the time:

In some instances they found malfunctioning HVAC systems, which can cause discomfort to humans, and in other cases there were computer mice that created surprising disruptions.
“We weren’t finding what we expected to find,” said one of the US officials. “There is no one explanation for any of this.”
There was also criminal activity that occurred around some of the incidents – such as the presence of weapons dealers. But when intelligence officials chased those leads – by looking into the criminals’ past, their family and their travels – they found no connection to the mysterious health incidents.
Officials even considered extraterrestrials as a cause, but found no linkage, they said.
US intelligence community cannot link ‘Havana Syndrome’ cases to a foreign adversary (CNN, Mar 2, 2023)

Other causes were mentioned in Conspiracyland's excellent article (see post 1,599 in September 2022:

In one case, in a Latin American country where an official reported hearing vibrating sound that caused pain in the ears, task force investigators found that there had been blasting musical speakers that were bouncing off walls in the building where the official was located. In another incident, the task force discovered a faulty component in a high-volume air conditioning system; in yet another, a power-charger plugged into malfunctioning wiring that resulted in electrical disturbances, which caused officials to feel pressure in the head and dizziness.

One U.S. official had reported walking down the street in an overseas country and being hit by what was described as a beam of energy that caused pain in the ears. The task force identified the likely cause: the use nearby of an ultrasonic pest repellent to target possums and rodents. Perhaps more importantly, one of the sources noted, "There is nothing that links these cases."

I would also have preferred many more details in the ODNI report, preferably a description of each and every case, but the lack of those details doesn't support Mark Zaid's conclusion that the ODNI report's mentioning of "preexisting conditions, conventional illnesses, and environmental factors" means that anything has been 'explained away'. In fact, I think that it's considerate of the ODNI report not to mention all the details that would have been extremely embarrassing to the 'syndrome' victims who claim to suffer from combat injuries.

It is obvious that whenever any of the AHI cases are explained, it annoys the hell out of Mark Zaid that the explanation isn't microwaves. And it is just as obvious that, whenever a case has not been explained, Zaid interprets is as if the lack of explanation is proof positive that his exotic explanation is the right one, i.e. that it was caused by a DEW attack. See post 2,262 about 'Putin in the Gaps'.

 

[dann]

Connecting the Nuts

My post 2,193 was a parody of TIs and other conspiracy nuts 'connecting the dots', How the dots are REALLY connected, but it turns out to have been a Poe:

Was George W. Bush a 2007 victim of Russia-induced ‘Havana Syndrome’?
By @TomRtweets
December 7, 2021
Good article worth reading again with hindsight of German intelligence issues.
Today, Bush isn't the same person he was while in office.
Was George W. Bush a 2007 victim of Russia-induced 'Havana Syndrome'? (Washington Examiner, Dec 7, 2021)
Dale Schenck (X, May 9, 2024)

Nope, he wasn't even poisoned, but let's make some 'dots' to 'connect':
The Russian agent pulled over for speeding in Florida as seen on 60 Minutes was a chef!!!
G-8 Chefs Baffled By Laura Bush's Poisoning Claim (Spiegel, May 1, 2010)
DannSim (X, May 9, 2024)

At this point, there are too many dots to ignore, let alone be dismissive of.
Not to mention that the majority run through the same conduit.
Interesting that you mentioned he was a chef. We'll circle back to that comment at a later date.
Dale Schenck (X, May 9, 2024)

"But then all of a sudden, after working for two years in a military institute he up and decides to become a chef.
Kovalev immigrated to the U.S. and worked as a chef in New York and Washington D.C.,
even appearing at far left, in a TV cooking segment."
Havana Syndrome mystery continues as a lead military investigator says bar for proof was set impossibly high (CBS, March 31, 2024)
DannSim (X, May 9, 2024)

And there's more!
"But Kovalev was actually a Russian military electrical engineer with a top secret security clearance.
Scott Pelley: Can someone like Kovalev simply decide to drop all of that and become a chef?
Christo Grozev: It is not an easy job to just leave that behind."
DannSim (X, May 9, 2024)

 

[dann]

The Subcommittee Hearing in the media

For the most part, the mainstream media seems to have ignored the subcommittee hearing on Wednesday.
This article from ABC News can't have been what Edgreen, Grozev and Zaid were hoping for:

"It is my view that the executive branch, particularly at the behest of and manipulation by officials within CIA, is not truthfully reporting what it knows," said Mark Zaid, an attorney representing more than two dozen victims of "Havana syndrome," citing U.S. intelligence that he says he's seen in his work but could not reveal in an unclassified setting.
An assessment released last year by the U.S. intelligence community found it was "very unlikely" that a foreign adversary was behind the cases of the so-called "Havana syndrome" affecting U.S. diplomats, intelligence community members, and Defense Department officials.
(...)
Last March, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said in a statement that the health events were probably the result of other factors such as "preexisting conditions, conventional illnesses, and environmental factors."
Haines added that the evidence also did not indicate that a "causal mechanism," such as a weapon, or a "unique syndrome" brought on the reported symptoms.
Witnesses tell lawmakers US intel community downplaying cases of mysterious 'Havana syndrome' - A report concluded it was 'very unlikely' a foreign adversary was the cause. (ABC News, May 9, 2024)

The article also says that:

A U.S. official told ABC News on Wednesday the Department of Defense has "provided medical assessment and/or treatment in the military health care system for more than 200 people" relating to AHI since 2016. But the official wouldn't say how many of those were deemed to have suffered traumatic brain injuries, citing patient privacy rules.
But so far, none has received payments. "DOD has not made any HAVANA Act payments yet, because we are working to establish implementation guidance for the Department," the official said. "We expect to issue such guidance this summer."

It is not surprising that the Miami Herald is much more willing to give credence to the 'attack' idea, but even its article notices that Mark Zaid was much more subdued in the hearing than on 60 Minutes:

He refrained from using the word “cover-up,” as he did when interviewed by 60 Minutes, telling members of Congress that they should investigate whether the blocking of classified information has legitimate national security motives.
An FBI agent was victim of a Havana Syndrome ‘attack’ in Key West, lawyer tells Congress (Miami Herald/yahoo!news, May 9, 2024)

In Mark Zaid's conversation with Matt Ford (see posts 2,255, 2,257 and 2,260), he was also much less careful about choosing his words. I guess being under oath makes a difference to a lawyer. Saying that "the executive branch (...) is not truthfully reporting what it knows" is probably safe. Things were obviously redacted, for instance, so the whole truth wasn't revealed, obviously. However, claiming that the government and/or its agencies are deliberately covering things up or outright lying, as he said to Matt Ford, is probably a different thing.

Edgreen was also less outspoken than he was on 60 Minutes, even though he has a firm belief and still seems to look forward to WW3:

Edgreen did not go that far Wednesday as to directly name Russia as the culprit, as he did in the 60 Minutes show, but told the congressional committee that he found a very strong Russian “nexus.”
The intelligence community assessment “is dead wrong,” he said. “It’s my firm belief we already have attribution. Right now is the time for action, for retribution.”

 

[dann]

Mark Zaid retweets Washington Examiner (MediaBias/FactCheck) article:

In this situation it is the evidence driving the emotion, not vice versa.
House committee confronts Havana Syndrome’s Russia connection (WashingtonExaminer, May 8, 2024)
Tom Rogan (X, May 9, 2024)

 

[dann]

Another one of those tweets that will go unanswered:

I will be testifying tomorrow (5/8) at 2 pm EST before House Committee on Homeland Security's Subcommittee on #AnomalousHealthIncidents.
You can watch testimony live:
https://homeland.house.gov/hearing/...hzSZ0cXJKMllKcPMBQuiWzVWECPv4-T1pPnkvmRQPZmHX
And you can read submitted written testimony here: https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-05-08-CTI-HRG-Testimony.pdf
Mark S. Zaid (X, May 8, 2024)

When under oath, Mark Zaid "refrained from using the word “cover-up,” as he did when interviewed by 60 Minutes."
And "Edgreen did not go that far Wednesday as to directly name Russia as the culprit."
Why does being under oath make them so hesitant?
An FBI agent was victim of a Havana Syndrome ‘attack’ in Key West, lawyer tells Congress (yahoo!news, May 9, 2024)
DannSim (X, May 11, 2024)

 

[dann]

Short article based mainly on the some of the reports about the 'syndrome' and the criticism and reporting about those reports.

1.0 Introduction: What is Havana Syndrome?
2.0 Mysterious Viruses or Chemical Agents?
2.1 Mass Hysteria, Mass Sensationalism, or Mass Psychogenic Illness?
3.0 Havana Syndrome: Chronology of Events
3.1 The Press Briefing
3.2 First Mention of Sonic Attacks
3.3 Havana Syndrome’s Disputed Russian and Chinese Interference
3.4 The Cuban Sonic Investigation Committee Findings
3.5 Canada Contagion
3.6 An Unlikely Suspect: Cicadas and the Power of Suggestion
4.0 Unsound Science
4.1 The 2018 JAMA Study
4.2 The 2019 JAMA Study
4.3 Pushing an Agenda: Mixing Politics and Science
5.0 Whodunnit: Havana Syndrome’s Alleged Culprits
6.0 Havana Syndrome: Unidentified Causes
Havana Syndrome: Foul Play or False Symptoms? (grey dynamics, May 10, 2024)

The author, Alex Purcell, "is a Junior Intelligence Analyst, specialising in West Africa and the Sahel."

 

[dann]

There was John Foreman's article recently (see post 2,259) and now Alex Purcell's new article. I guess the 'syndrome' is slowly turning into a U.S. specific thing.
I love Encyclopedia Britannica's take on it:

medical condition
Havana syndrome, largely discredited medical condition reported among U.S. diplomats and other government employees stationed internationally.
(...)
By 2024 most cases had been linked to other medical conditions and previous injuries (e.g., traumatic brain injury).
Havana syndrome medical condition (Encyclopedia Britannica, Last updated May 9, 2024)

The last paragraph is all about group psychology, mentioning a "documented example of a condition in which group psychology was influential is an epidemic of repetitive strain injury that occurred in Australia between 1983 and 1985."

 

[dann]

SGU & Bartholomew

I wasn't too happy with a recent episode of Skeptics' Guide to the Universe (see post 2,246), so I'm glad that Robert Bartholomew got a chance to explain what the 'syndrome' is all about in the most recent episode:

News Items
Electric Propulsionals
Blowing Off Steam
Washington Post and Past Lives
Programmable Living Materials
Fighting Holocaust Denial
Who's That Noisy
Answer to last week: Bantha
Interview with Robert Bartholomew
https://rebartholomew.com/
Question #1: Deep Fakes and Grief
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/05/07/1092116/deepfakes-dead-chinese-business-grief/
Science or Fiction [ Show Answers ]
* Item #1
The four-eyed fish has one pair of eyes for viewing above the water line and one pair for viewing below the water. https://www.burgerszoo.com/nieuws/2023/09/four-eyed-fish
* Item #2
Reindeer are the only animals whose eyes change color seasonally, changing from a gold-turquoise in the summer to a deep blue in the winter. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2022.1002
* Item #3
Owls do not have eyeballs – their eyes are more mushroom or cylindrically shaped. https://www.treehugger.com/owl-facts-that-will-amaze-you-4863920
Skeptical Quote of the Week.
‘The learned fool writes his nonsense in better language than the unlearned, but it is still nonsense.’ Benjamin Franklin
Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, episode #983 (May 11, 2024 - 1:58:45)

The interview with Bartholomew about the 'syndrome' is from 1:15:40 to 1:44:10.

What makes the interview particularly interesting is that the interviewer (Steven Novella?) mentions that all the articles he found insisted that microwaves are the most likely explanation for the original cohort of 'syndrome' victims. This had made him think that at least some of the 1,500+ cases must have been caused by attacks. In combination with the fact that a few of the cases in the Japanese Pokemon outbreak of MPI (Snopes) may have been actual epileptic seizures caused by the flashing cartoon, it had made him think that something similar might have happened in the case of the 'Havana Syndrome', i.e. that a handful of genuine attacks might have triggered the larger mass of purely psychogenic cases. It is an easy mistake to make without knowledge of how the whole thing got started in Havana in 2016, which Bartholomew tells him about, i.e. the real origin story of the 'syndrome'.


The Washington Post reference at the beginning of the episode is to this article: The children who remember their past lives (WP, May 2, 2024)
The readers' comments are the worst thing about the WP article, like this one:

Ok, i don't believe in reincarnation, but this happened when my son was 4. 3 or 4, i can't remember.
One day ...

You can already guess where this is going, and the first 10 comments are very similar.

 

[dann]

Of TI Doctors and Lizard People

A targeted doctor (Yes, there are targeted doctors now!) explains light and sound on a video about an "extinction level event":

5:32: But give me a minute here and explain the technology, you know, how light, before we made lightbulbs, light was all dispersed, everywhere. And then they figured out how to control it and turn it into a lightbulb. And then they figured out even more and controlled it into a laser.
Sound waves are like light waves. They figured out how to control it and direct it. And so that's what they're doing. And they're doing it with any voice. They can do it with a dead relative. They can do it with anybody.
Truth Be Told - Targeted Doctors (VaxxChoice on Clouthub)

There are almost three hours of this stuff. I have only listened to the first 10 minutes.
I wonder if they can do this dead-relative thing with light, too, and beam the images of them onto your retina to go with the V2K, but I don't have the patience to listen to three hours of this.

TI Len Ber is organizing a new event:

If you are a Targeted Physician and would like to share information about your case and your medical expertise on the topic, please DM me. We are finalizing the list of speakers for the next "Targeted Doctors" Symposium.
We held the first one on April 12, 2024. Here is the link https://clouthub.com/p/ukN3ju8z
Len Ber MD (X, May 13, 2024)

Meanwhile, from the sane (sane, not same) corner:

You’d think the belief that an illness is in reality an act of war perpetrated by a hostile foreign government would, prima facie, disqualify whoever made the charge from being taken seriously. You’d also think such a fantasy would be easy to refute, but apparently not. It took the American health bureaucracy eight years to rule out enemy death rays, and I’m sure many Havana syndrome sufferers still consider themselves targets of a deadly foreign conspiracy. Such convictions require a hefty dose of megalomania, but believing that your headache is a foreign enemy attack indicates that megalomania is not in short supply.
Hypochondriacs Can Relax: Havana Syndrome Is Baloney (CounterPunch, April 5, 2024)

The author's book Lizard People sounds interesting, in particular in the TI context:

LIZARD PEOPLE is a comic novel about the weirdos, nutcases, oddballs, nitwits and outright raving lunatics who think they are or associate with actual lizard people. Some in fact do have scales. It's also about their mortal enemies, the equally bonkers members of Q-Anon. Several characters transform into lizards, while the Q followers, obsessed with lizard Illuminati supposedly ruling the world, plot to hunt them down. LIZARD PEOPLE also recounts the hilarious perils and pitfalls of modern technology, in the hands of, well, the incompetent.

 

[dann]

I guess that this SBM article may be the result of Steven Novella's reading up on MPI before his recent interview with Robert Bartholomew on Skeptics' Guide to the Universe (see post 2,271):

Even if we convincingly demonstrate that part of the patient’s symptoms are non-neurological and likely psychogenic, we need to avoid the temptation to conclude that the entire presentation is psychogenic. Most of the time, it isn’t. Very much like the Pokemon incident, something neurological happened which then triggered the psychogenic component. We have to make sure we don’t miss the neurological part because we are distracted by the psychogenic part.
(...)
In short, the approach to possible psychogenic symptoms needs to be careful, thoughtful, and nuanced. Any simplistic approach is likely to miss important aspects of the what is actually happening, either with an individual patient or a medical phenomenon.
How To Approach Psychogenic Symptoms (Science-Based Medicine, May 8, 2024)

During Novella's SGU interview with Bartholomew, it didn't sound as if he thought that Bartholomew's approach to the 'syndrome' was simplistic and not sufficiently careful, thoughtful, and nuanced.

 

[dann]

Complaints about alleged disinformation bots

The disinformation site The Insider (see posts 2,169, 2,176, 2,206, 2,224, 2,225, 2,228, 2,234 and 2,259) complains about alleged disinformation bots:

An article on wanderfalke.net (which Meta has included on a list of sites under the control of the Doppelgänger network) makes the claim that “even the U.S. doesn’t blame Russia” for the attacks. At the same time, however, the piece also says that it is the U.S. that is interested in disseminating the investigation that presents evidence of Russian involvement in the Havana Syndrome phenomenon. According to the disinformation article:

“The U.S. itself does not directly accuse Russia or even create an international scandal. But then why is this topic intensively used in the media — especially in European media? Every 2-3 years the topic of Russian secret weapons against Americans and Europeans appears in various sources, but Moscow is never directly accused. Why are such maneuvers necessary? This information is favorable to Washington for one reason only: to justify the continuation of its anti-Russian policy. The last time the microwave-burned brains appeared in the mirror was in 2021 — at the height of discussions about Nord Stream-2. Now it's time to justify supporting Ukraine to the victorious (?) end. And so the brain-burning front-page rays are back in action. The best way to support military sentiment is to intimidate the population. And this is the tactic the U.S. uses against Europe every time.”

Kremlin botnet launches wave of disinformation claiming Havana Syndrome doesn't exist (The Insider, May 8, 2024)

At least in this case, the alleged disinformation botnet is much more truthful than the alleged investigative site The Insider.
However, it's not that I don't believe that it is spreading disinformation about other things. The Insider claims that:

Since 2015, Gellerman has been running the blog Rationalgalerie, where he actively criticizes NATO, defends Vladimir Putin, and promotes various conspiracy theories. Notably, the blogger denied the danger of the coronavirus.

We have far too many COVID-19 disinformation posts on this forum, but I don't think the majority of them are paid by Putin.

 

[Random person]

---
We have far too many COVID-19 disinformation posts on this forum, but I don't think the majority of them are paid by Putin.

How do you identify posts where the forum member(s) writing them, is(are) paid?

 

[dann]

In addition to the article at Science-Based Medicine (see post 2,273), Steven Novella wrote this article immediately after his interview with Robert Bartholomew but before it was released:

Last month I wrote about Havana Syndrome,
(...)
My original point, however, stands. When dealing with claims that are not paranormal, do not break the laws of physics, and are not literally impossible, we have to be careful not to overstate the skeptical case, or to endorse arguments that are weak just because they support the skeptical narrative. Also, having plausible alternate explanations, like mass delusion, is useful but not definitive in itself. The “explanation of exclusion” may be correct, and may be the most likely answer, but always comes with a question mark. Far better is when there is positive evidence for an alternate explanation.

In the case of Havana Syndrome, it is satisfying to conclude that the skeptical answer, that it is almost certainly entirely a mass delusion, is the best current answer.
Havana Syndrome Revisited (NeurologicaBlog, May 9, 2024)

The argument Novella made in the article "last month," i.e. April 1, 2024, What to Make of Havana Syndrome, is very similar to the one he made in the SGU podcast (see post 2,246).
Interesting comments to both articles, but the very long and entirely irrelevant derails make me appreciate the job that moderators do at ISF.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

How do you identify posts where the forum member(s) writing them, is(are) paid?

There are ways, but dann just said he didn't think they were. Absent certain signs I think that's a reasonable assumption.

The most obvious reason for not thinking posters here are paid is that paid influencers are wasting their time coming here. Far more productive to hang out on X or YouTube etc., than a forum that promotes critical thinking - especially one as unpopular as this one. I mean, even Wikipedia barely mentions us!

 

[Roger Ramjets]

In addition to the article at Science-Based Medicine (see post 2,273), Steven Novella wrote this article immediately after his interview with Robert Bartholomew but before it was released:

According to Bartholomew, who has direct information from interviews, the first case is extremely questionable. It occurred on the background of frequent harassment of US diplomats by the Cuban government, so there was already high anxiety that they were being targeted. When patient zero developed symptoms, he became convinced it was an external attack because they were accompanied by a sound – a sound that he recorded. Analysis of that sound concluded that he was just hearing the mating call of a local cricket species.

Patient zero, however, was convinced he was the victim of an attack, and then aggressively began promoting this idea, and warning all of his colleagues to be on the lookout for similar symptoms. This, predictably, led to a cluster of reports of symptoms. This, in turn, lead to the US state department putting out a notice to all US personnel stationed abroad to also be on the lookout for similar symptoms – a notice that would have gone to literally millions of people. This is a great way to generate a mass delusion.

A concise, neutral assessment of the facts. Only someone with an agenda would try to make it more than that.

The second piece of information I found compelling was part of the intelligence investigation. The main argument against a directed microwave attack is not that such technology is impossible, but rather that use of such a device would have necessarily produced certain effects that were absent. A microwave beam would heat up any electronic or metal objects in the path, and would have likely caused noticeable heating of any tissue that was targeted. It would also likely have interfered with WiFi. None of this was reported, and is not part of the syndrome.

This is the icing on the cake.

But again, someone who wants to believe nefarious forces were at work can easily dismiss it. We can dismiss them right back, but unfortunately conspiracy theories are appealing to a public who want more excitement in their lives.

So how to counter it? Words won't be enough. I propose an experiment. Expose the victims to the actual source of their condition so they can identify with it. If you thought you were exposed to mind rays, wouldn't you be relieved to find out it was just crickets? That's what has to be done here. Not dismissively though, and with something positive to go with it. I'm thinking a nice retirement package to make up for the unnecessary stress these people have been through.

Apologies from the doctors and others who misdiagnosed the symptoms - making people think they had been 'attacked' - would also help.

But is it too late? I think not. Eventually the public will lose interest, memories will fade and it will all be in the past. That's when the victims will heal if we give them a positive closure.

 

[dann]

So how to counter it? Words won't be enough. I propose an experiment. Expose the victims to the actual source of their condition so they can identify with it. If you thought you were exposed to mind rays, wouldn't you be relieved to find out it was just crickets? That's what has to be done here. Not dismissively though, and with something positive to go with it. I'm thinking a nice retirement package to make up for the unnecessary stress these people have been through.

The experiment won't help them at this point, but it might help others from falling for the same idea. It doesn't help people who believe that they are victims of EHS. Experiments will have as little effect on them as experiments/tests have on dowsers, and dowsers only suffer from a delusion, not from the neurological damage (headaches, dizziness, nausea etc.) that the constant fear of being attacked has caused.

Remember also that some of the 'syndrome' sufferers have been adamant from the start that they suffer from combat injuries and that no other explanation will do: "I want the Agency to treat this as a combat injury." (See post 1,659.)

For this reason, they are less likely to get better than the school girls in Kenya, in the UK or at Le Roy, New York, who are probably all fine by now. As are the Säpo employees, I assume. I think that the Danish HPV girls are all fine, at least the ones whose only problem was MPI. In the case of the ones who had ascribed actual health problems to the HPV vaccines, I assume that they have been or are being treated for those.

Apologies from the doctors and others who misdiagnosed the symptoms - making people think they had been 'attacked' - would also help.

People in the original 'syndrome' cohort have based their current identities and lives on being attack victims. Finding out that their recordings of the 'attacks' were recordings of crickets doesn't seem to have helped them. The ones that it may have helped wouldn't be the ones who were interviewed by Woolf, Anderson, Entous or Pelley.
There are 'syndrome' victims that we haven't heard from since before the ODNI report, people like Kate Husband, Doug Ferguson, Karen and Kevin Coats. We don't know why they stopped telling their stories to the media after the winter of 2022-23.

And the doctors confirming (or persuading them to think) that they were attack victims still insist that they have discovered a brand new syndrome, so I doubt that they'll apologize for anything. On the contrary, they still appear to be propagating the 'syndrome' narrative.

But you leave out the 11 million victims that had no part in the whole thing. So does the media in almost every story told about the 'syndrome' and its victims. Nothing whatsoever has been done for that cohort. There have been no apologies for "the unnecessary stress these people have been through," no financial compensation. On the contrary, the Biden administration exacerbated el bloqueo and has only very recently (i.e. last week) removed Cuba from the list of states allegedly supporting terrorism.

The demand that the U.S. government correct this injustice is loud and reiterated, not only by the Cuban people and numerous governments, especially in Latin America and the Caribbean, but also by political, social and religious organizations within the United States itself
The U.S. must remove Cuba, once and for all, from the List of States that Allegedly Sponsor Terrorism (Granma.cu, May 15, 2024)

U.S. policy against Cuba is not compatible with the faith of its people (Granma.cu, May 17, 2024)
US removes Cuba from list of countries not fully cooperating on counterterrorism efforts (CNN/MSN, May 16, 2024)
I wonder how long it will last:
U.S. Lawmakers Slam Decision to Remove Cuba from Terrorism Non-Cooperation List (CubaHeadlines, May 19, 2024)
Ivan Duque Accuses Cuban Government of Supporting Terrorism (CubaHeadlines, May 18, 2024)

 

[dann]

... the Biden administration exacerbated el bloqueo and has only very recently (i.e. last week) removed Cuba from the list of states allegedly supporting terrorism.

I was wrong. Biden hasn't (yet?!) "removed Cuba from the list of states allegedly supporting terrorism." I wasn't aware that there are two lists, and so far Cuba has only been removed from one:

The cooperation against terrorism list, which the State Department is required by law to provide the U.S. Congress, is not the same as the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, according to the department official.
Former U.S. President Donald Trump separately designated Cuba a state sponsor of terrorism just prior to leaving office, a jab that Cuba maintains has contributed to a severe economic crisis on the island, and to shortages of food, fuel and medicine.
US removes Cuba from list of countries not cooperating fully against terrorism (Reuters, May 15, 2024)

I can see why Reuters describes the move as "tepid": "a tepid if symbolically important move on behalf of the Biden administration."