Understanding the Liberal Mindset

[Trausti]

I am sure you do. That is one of the points: by having a working public health that is free for all, we spend less per capita than many other countries.

But think about why the U.S. can't make health care effective in order to get more health out of less money: is it the left wing or the right wing that is against?

ETA: I am of course not thinking of your personal position.

Who do you think the trial attorneys vote for?

 

[theprestige]

Wrong thread.

 

[steenkh]

Who do you think the trial attorneys vote for?

I have no idea, nor why trial attorneys are important here.

 

[Trausti]

I have no idea, nor why trial attorneys are important here.

Well, on the question of healthcare cost in the US, they have some influence. When hospitals and doctors are hit with multi-million dollar verdicts, that cost is passed on.

 

[arthwollipot]

And yet, this good idea doesn't win anything better than a nodding approval from those not on the left.

While the "no-one should be rich" is completely ignored, and even actively countered by the oligarch billionaires, who believe that "no-one should be rich except for me and my techbros, who should be so insanely, obscenely rich that we could solve all the world's hunger thousands of times over but we won't."

Also I think a bit of caution is warranted. In my experience, people who tend to be passionate about "nobody should be poor" are equally passionate about "nobody should be rich". So I tend to reserve more than nodding approval until I see where we're going with it.

In this case we're going pretty much straight to "nobody should be rich". If you think that's a bad idea, consider calling it out next time, instead of letting it slide in the name of "nobody should be poor".

I think that caution is well-placed, if we remember that we're not talking about "rich" as in having enough money to support yourself and your family, and enough left over for some luxuries like a holiday once a year or eating at a fancy restaurant occasionally. We're talking about the insanely, ridiculously, over-the-top bat conkers crazy rich - the multibillionaires who between them have more accumulated wealth than 99% of the rest of the earth's population rich. Nobody should be that rich.

 

[arthwollipot]

1. Make it much easier for housing developers to build for-profit housing. Provide limited tax incentives to build small, simple homes at the lower end of the affordability scale.

aka. bigger government.

1. Stop outsourcing social services to opaque and shady non-profits. Set up one or more city agencies to do this work. Rationalize the budgets, and get rid of redundant spending. Open the books for public review and oversight.

aka. bigger government.

1. Focus homeless relief programs on developing a functional streets->shelters->rehab->self-sufficiency pipeline. With branches for institutionalization where necessary (whether hospital or prison, as appropriate).

aka. social services.

1. If you find you have money left over, invest heavily in public transit and road maintenance.

aka. bigger government.

1. If you find you still have money left over, subsidize trade schooling for anyone who wants it. Create a pipeline from trade schools to public works projects and city maintenance jobs.

aka. socialised education.

1. Use one-time windfalls for one-time projects, not to launch new programs that need ongoing funding.

aka. better regulation aka. bigger government.

1. Stop chasing pro sportsball teams. If they want a stadium in Portland, let them build it themselves.

I'm with you on that one, 100%.

1. Reconcile with the Portland police bureau. Prioritize traffic enforcement, community policing, and public transit safety.

aka. bigger government.

1. Spend a lot less money on schools and administrators and consultants, and spend a lot more money on teachers and education.

aka. socialised education.

1. Repeal the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Arts Tax.

I refrain from commenting on this one due to ignorance of your local politics.

Anyway, welcome to the woke, liberal far-left! Turns out you've been on our side all along.

 

[Trausti]

I think that caution is well-placed, if we remember that we're not talking about "rich" as in having enough money to support yourself and your family, and enough left over for some luxuries like a holiday once a year or eating at a fancy restaurant occasionally. We're talking about the insanely, ridiculously, over-the-top bat conkers crazy rich - the multibillionaires who between them have more accumulated wealth than 99% of the rest of the earth's population rich. Nobody should be that rich.

Woah, there comrade. Nobody needs more the a loaf of bread and some beans. And those people who have potatoes? Nobody should be that rich.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I have no problem with people being rich once no one is poor anymore.
Letting some people have 2nd, third and tenth helpings before others had enough to survive is just plain immoral and inhumane

Are there people on the planet who are near starvation while you enjoy a roof over your head, plenty of food, and all the benefits of technology that allow you to argue for utopian distractions on the internet with other members of the global wealth class?

Are you comfortable with your own immorality and inhumanity?

 

[arthwollipot]

Woah, there comrade. Nobody needs more the a loaf of bread and some beans. And those people who have potatoes? Nobody should be that rich.

Exactly. Thank you for providing the example of what we're not talking about.

 

[Trausti]

Exactly. Thank you for providing the example of what we're not talking about.

What, arbitrarily setting limits on what other people can have and earn? Isn't that the whole lefty mantra?

 

[Mojo]

What, arbitrarily setting limits on what other people have and earn? Isn't that the whole lefty mantra?

 

[Trausti]

Then leave people alone. Instead of coveting what someone else has earned and created, take the effort and do it, too! You're free to do that. Leave the rest of us alone.

 

[plague311]

Then leave people alone. Instead of coveting what someone else has earned and created, take the effort and do it, too! You're free to do that. Leave the rest of us alone.

I've never seen someone simp for the billionaire class with such rigor. That's outstanding.

Bad news bro, they don't know who you are and they don't give a ◊◊◊◊ about you. Also, we used to tax millionaires at 70% until your dog ◊◊◊◊ party ◊◊◊◊◊◊ it all up. Everything you republicans touch gets ruined. Your party does everything it can to ruin this nation while wrapping yourselves in the flag. Hence why the GOP is a global joke right now.

 

[arthwollipot]

Heck, tax these people at 70% and they'd probably barely notice the impact on their profits.

 

[theprestige]

I am sure you do. That is one of the points: by having a working public health that is free for all, we spend less per capita than many other countries.

But think about why the U.S. can't make health care effective in order to get more health out of less money: is it the left wing or the right wing that is against?

ETA: I am of course not thinking of your personal position.

This thread is about understanding the liberal mindset. Best I can do is my personal position. I never suggested that mainstream right-wing politics is an accurate representation of the liberal mindset.

 

[arthwollipot]

This thread is about understanding the liberal mindset.

No it isn't. It never was.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But think about why the U.S. can't make health care effective in order to get more health out of less money: is it the left wing or the right wing that is against?

Realistically, both.

The US has a large for-profit delivery system - hospitals, doctors, medical device purveyors, medical supply companies, etc. They all want to profit off of the system, and the mark-ups are absurd. The acetaminophen that costs less than a dime per pill over the counter is given to patients for a charge of $15 (or more) per pill. It's not a different medicine, and it doesn't cost the hospital more to acquire. They purchase in bulk at a discount, and mark it up to make money off of the patient, and more importantly the patient's insurance company which has no ability to deny a 15,000% inflationary charge. And that's barely the tip of the iceberg. The amount of venture capital involved in hospital and physician systems is abhorrent, it's literally funding the ever increasing cost of care delivery in the US so that investors can make mind-boggling profits off of a necessary system.

The US also has a large insurance system, about half of which is for-profit. That insurance spreads the delivery costs around to everyone, passing the investor's profit off to everyone in the form of increased premiums. And I know, I know, most of you think insurance is evil, but the amount of profits that insurers are allowed to make by law is tightly monitored.

Between those two, it's tens of millions of people employed. Just the health insurance industry has over 700,000 direct employees, with about the same number in secondary support and contracted employment. A massive overhaul of the system will absolutely disrupt the economy of the US and cause widespread unemployment.

And don't forget the impact of medical lobbies in the US. They've got the ears (and pockets) of politicians of all parties.

At the end of the day, both wings are against creating massive unemployment and losing their grift.

 

[theprestige]

I've never seen someone simp for the billionaire class with such rigor. That's outstanding.

Here in Portland, we're reduced to simping for the $250,000 yearly household income class. That's where all the extra wealth redistribution taxes kick in.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Exactly. Thank you for providing the example of what we're not talking about.

Of course you aren't. It's always a case of "those people over there should have all of their stuff taken away for the good of the poor... but not me, I should get to keep mine".

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm a liberal progressive because I believe in the universality of human rights regardless of nationality, religion, gender, sexuality, income, colour of skin, language, or politics.

I notice that sex isn't included in your list of universal human rights.